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Diggdog
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Diggdog is offline  
Location: UK
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22-05-2017, 06:48 PM

Dog diagnosed with probable primary liver disease

Hi,

Im new here and wanted some advice about this and what is the best way to care for our little one.

We have a border collie who is rapidly approaching 15 years old and went through a bad bout of diarrhea lately. We asked the vets to keep her in and do tests as she had been on rimadyl and we wanted to check if it was impacting her liver. Tests came back with high levels, they did the bile acid tests and they came back high too.

Vet is looking at options but she is talking about scans and a biopsy and feels it is the best course of action.

We dont want to sound like uncaring parents but our dog cant be given general anaesthetic due to a bad reaction and I know a type of biopsy can also be done under deep sedation but we are concerned that anything is a risk and at her age we dont really want to put her through it if it can be avoided, we also feel that even if they find a mass, we wont be able to operate anyway. Will the biopsy be useful for anything else as the vet is only really talking about looking for masses etc?

Obviously despite whatever happens from here we now need to look at giving her foods to support her liver, currently we have her on royal canin hepatic and the vet has prescribed samylin. The hepatic food is very expensive and whilst I would live on beans on toast to make sure our dog is fed properly, I was wanting to know if there are any normal foods we could give her which will be gentle on the liver as although I would spend my last penny on her, our funds arent limitless (although if Royal canin is the only option, its what she will get). It also doesn't help that the vets are charging £70 for a months supply of the samylin when it can be bought online at a third of the price...

Also, are there any other things we could be giving her to help on top of the samylin and the hepatic foods?

We spent the whole of last year treating our cat for CKD before she passed away and now its like a whole new learning curve with the dog so any help or advice would be much appreciated
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Chris
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22-05-2017, 08:14 PM
First advice, get the vet to issue prescriptions and buy online. It saves a fortune.

I'm not a vet so am not qualified to answer your health questions specifically, but I would be asking the vet what exactly they are looking for? If they find what they think it might be, can it be treated?

Once those questions are asked, then and only then would I make the decision on the best way to proceed.
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Diggdog
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22-05-2017, 08:20 PM
Thanks Chris, I have asked but the vet was a bit vague, I get the impression liver conditions arent this ones specialty so they intend to speak to other colleagues. We have pretty much rules out anything invasive due to previous issues with anesthetic
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Chris
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22-05-2017, 09:48 PM
To be honest, at 15 years old, you also have to consider quality of life.

My collie was just 16 when we lost him, so, believe me, I know what you are going through. xx
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Gnasher
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22-05-2017, 10:08 PM
Diggdog ... firstly I just want to say how sorry I am that your gorgeous collie is no longer in the peak of good health. 15 is an amazing age to get a dog to though, and although words come cheap and are easy to write, my own personal opinion is to take a very philosophical approach. This may make me sound very harsh, but as much as I love all animals - esp dogs and horses - I personally would be very reluctant to spend large sums of money on such an old dog, not because the dog is worthless but because at over 100 years in human terms you are quite simply not going to achieve much. My advice would be to spend your money on the best nutrition and supplements to help your dog to live as long as possible within the parameters of a good quality of life, pain free, comfortable and fulfilling for the dog. I have a very basic rule of thumb about my animals ... provided they are not in obvious pain, are eating, drinking and evacuating bladder and bowels reasonably normally and are enjoying life, then I am happy. I take the view that a dog does not know it has cancer, or disease, and therefore there are no psychosomatic implications. My last dog, Tai, had some sort of cancerous tumour in his abdomen, which we sought no veterinary treatment for. He lived on like this for 2 or 3 years, quite happy and enjoying life until he started to evacuate his bowels in his sleep and then we knew the time had come and we took him to our vet to be put to sleep.

My advice would be to enjoy what time you have left with your collie, and let nature take its course. You will know when the time comes to say goodbye. I hope this helps you and doesn't sound too harsh xx gnasher xx
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CaroleC
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22-05-2017, 10:48 PM
I totally agree with Gnasher's post.
I have lost two dogs to liver cancer. The first was a Golden Retriever. She was 14 and was just becoming slower and slower, she was not jaundiced, and still ate and drank normally. Her tumour was easily palpated and about the size of a tennis ball. When she began to struggle to climb the steps into the house, I let her go.
The second case was a Cavalier - I think she was 12 - who very suddenly just couldn't keep anything down, not even water. I took her to the vet the following day, by which time one of her eyes had started to bulge. He said it was a type of brain tumour which was usually secondary to liver cancer, and sure enough, on examination, there was a large mass - which had been without symptoms.
Fifteen is a good age for a dog, and there is only a little time that could possibly be gained by intervention. I would make your girl as comfortable as possible until you recognise the signs that she has had enough. Milk thistle is a herb that can give great support to the liver, and it is very safe.
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Dr. Dennis Thomas
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25-05-2017, 01:10 AM
I think you are dead on..... it is about quality of life. We veterinarians often get so focused on coming up with a specific diagnosis, we forget to have a little common sense. No sense in putting your dog through any further diagnostic tests. The elevated bile acids indicate that your dog has an obstructive disease of the liver. At this point, who cares why. If it were cancer, you sure wouldn't be doing chemotherapy. I personally like using milk thistle herbs instead of the prescription milk thistle. The closer that you get to the natural plant, the better it is for your dog. Chemically refining it decreases its value and increases its price. I like to use SAMe on these dogs. You can buy it at the health food store, get one about 200mg tablet and make sure it is in a blister pack. It oxidizes if gets in contact with the air. Don't feed the hepatic formula. It is garbage food with a few supplements to support the liver. I like feeding fresh food, high in protein and no starch. I would also recommend putting your dog on a Chinese herbal remedy called xiao yao wan. It is great for liver regulation. You can find it online at amazon.com. I like the Plumb Flower brand. Other than that, be thankful every day that you still have your dog. Good luck.
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