Can you/how to rebuild the bond of trust?

Was talking to someone this morning who has found herself losing patience with her dog lately, a young GSD. The dog has been pushing things - ignoring her commands etc. and pulling on the lead and she said she keeps shouting at him because she gets angry and impatient. Now she is worried that the dog doesn't trust her anymore as he cowered when she stood over him and bit her when she tried to make him sit down by pushing him down on his back.

Must say they looked ok this morning but it did make me wonder:

How easy is it to break the bond you have with a dog?
Is it possible to rebuild that trust if it's gone?
How best to do it?

I suggested going back to gentle training methods and make it fun, lots of kind voice and praise and to be more patient as perhaps a kind of pattern of bad behaviour and shouting has developed that needs to be broken.

I think she needs to try,but this is what happened between me and Zanta only it had been creeping up gradually and although I knew deep down the trust thing wasn't there I didn't want to give up.
Unfortunately when it came to her trying to stop me leaving the house and biting my arm not hard but hard enough to shock me and not trust her anymore I knew things had gone terribly wrong between us and e-mailed her breeder we took her back.
So it depends how things have been going for a period of time and have there been anymore tell tale signs of the dog being bossy and dominant towards her & how old is the dog.If it is still quite young she may be able to overcome the problem,Zanta is rehomed and has been with the new people since December last year and is happy and they encounter no problems,this person was used to dominant dogs and Zanta was kept down from day one with me it had gone to far and she had one over on me,a hard thing to admit,but sometimes you just have too.
Hope this person can sort things out with her dog,if she can still trust the dog she should be ok,and it is worth persevering.
I think your advice was probably right go back to gentle training methods he is probably pushing his luck.

That must have been tough Lynn but glad that Zanta is doing okay in her new home.

Just thought of something else while washing the cushion covers out that Ollie has slobbered on,maybe she hurt the dog when she pushed on his back and enough to make him turn round and bite.
Thanks it was hard but she is better where she is and it was the right thing to do as the breeder said sometimes wrong dog wrong home.
Ollie is great to have around from the same breeder and he is pushy at times but this feels so different at the age Ollie is now I knew Zanta and I hadn't bonded with Ollie he and I are such good Friends even when he tries it on and although he nips at the moment you know its puppy play Zanta's was constant and every oppurtunity she could get to bite she would. Ollie is like my other dog Max naughty but loveable.

I think the dog is being a typical teenager, pushing his luck. It's easy to get into a spiral of telling the dog off all the time, but it's actually a time when the bond should be strengthening. It's a point in a young dogs life when it needs guidance and the person to provide it is the handler. yes, it should always be kind, totally, but on occassion, the dog also has to be told 'no' or not to do something, the best way of doing that is verbally, tone of voice is so important. It's an age I love to be honest because it always presents a challenge. The dog that you THOUGHT was settling and well behaved suddenly becomes selectively deaf, pulls and doesn't come back. The only way to solve it is to try any and every kind method possible...voice, touch (soft gentle tickles in a calm manner can work wonders,it's just where the individual dogs fav spot is!) a toy, different training treats. We can become stuck in a rut with the things we do with our dogs and soemtimes just putting on a silly voice is enough to get a dogs attention back to us.
Yes, it is possible to get a dogs trust back, totally.
By the sound of it I don't think this lady has broken any bond, she's just feeling the strain of having a large teenage dog. GSD's will tell you when they ain't happy, which is why he warned her off when she tried to make him sit, perhaps she should get him checked at a vets and perhaps it's time to think about castration?
The behaviour of a dog in its teenage phase is not always indicative of how it will be at maturity. The lady needs to take a breath and reflect on how her training with him is going and look at how she could liven things up and change things. She should also get him checked over.
I love that age, saturn is so there at the minute!!!!! It's a challenge just walking up the street as sometimes he takes it upon himself to do a bounce and run!!! Totally out of the blue and for no reason...big bubbling bag of hormones and love they are!!!!!! :smt001

Wow, what a great question. Hmmm...

When we got Blondi, we got her after she had quite literally been whacked over the head by the male partner of the previous owners, with a pitchfork, as well as denied regular food, etc, but the head injury was the key one.

I could barely lift my hand before she would cower and it was tragic to watch. She still does it now but it's less and less as each week passes. Whether that would be the same with the original owner, whos to say? If I raise my voice, she will instantly cower, but again, it's getting less and less but very slowly indeed.

I think that dogs are as successful as they are precisely because they have learned to adapt to us -- warts and all, and continually do so. Do they forget? I personally doubt it, but I do think that regular positive actions can serve to dilute any previous negative action recognition.

How easy is it to break the bond you have with a dog?
I think extremely easy if your breaking action is extreme enough. The pitchfork story I gave above, being a prime example. You want to be in a position where you dog trusts you to make good decisions in times of stress. If you resort to such a primitive action, then I believe the dog learns that it has to rely on itself, and thus pays less attention to the owner. At the end of the day, the dog has as much a survival mechanism as we do.

If it doesn't respect the owner enough to believe that it is crucial to its survival then, I'm going to have to presume that the owner becomes somewhat superflous to the dog.

However, I stress with utmost clarity, I don't think, any of what you wrote initially is enough for a dog to make such a decision. Though it may be lessening the respect it has, as the shouting will be just noise that is making no sense whatsoever to the dog.

Is it possible to rebuild that trust if it's gone?
I think to some extent, yes. I personally draw the line at what I consider to be unprovoked biting, but that is not the dog, that is me. The dog may well trust me again after biting, but I will not trust it again.

I do genuinely believe that if a dog sees good leadership, it will respond to it in a positive manner, irrespective of past treatment. Of course it may take time, but good habits form just as quickly as bad ones so I have little reason to believe that shown enough correct behaviours, it will learn them without fear or favour of the past. I could use my own GSD as an example again, but then the question would still beg: would she be as responsive to the guy who actually carried out the act? Much to the dog's downfall at times, I believe she would. Sometimes, I think they can be too trusting when desperate enough.

How best to do it?
If I knew that... I think it's just about showing confidence, respect, and good leadership qualities. Shouting is never going to be the best way to get a dog's respect or attention. Even if it could understand English, like humans, most words just become white-noise when shouted loudly. To the dog, I'm sure it just sees a human barking for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

Our job, as owners, I believe, is to use one of the key things we have that the dog doesn't: reasoning. We need to remember that it is up to us to learn their language, not the other way around. No amount of shouting, kicking, or whacking with a pitch-fork will ever change that.

I agree GSD Lover...reason...always trying to stay one step ahead..trying to anticipate so you can guide the dog to make the right move...that's exactly what it is.

Forgot as well, has she hit the dog? Is that why it cowered??? That would put a whole new slant on it I think.

Lynn, you made the right decision as only you can know your relationship with the dog you are dealing with and if it is going to work, sometimes, sadly, people and dogs are mismatched just like we can be mismatched with other people. At least you have Ollie...(not for long if I ever spot him though!!!! He's gorgous...you reckon I could smuggle him away under my coat????!!!!!!!!) Ailsa x

Ailsa you can try and smuggle him under your coat you wouldn't get very far he weighs a ton now.
thanks for the nice comment re:Zanta.

Great posts, thanks for your input .

Can't say for sure but I don't think she has hit the dog.

I have now had 6 gsd's over the years, and I must say the only one who has ever really tested my patience is my current bitch Cassie. She is a very dominant dog and the times I have yelled, screamed, shouted at her are too many to count, yet I know she adores me, and would never do anything now that goes against our house rules.

I think Lynn has hit the nail on the head when she mentioned about the woman actually hurting this dog when she pushed it down to a sit position, that is a big no no. Also Ailsa has said about the mis-match thing which may be going on, that could be a possibility? Also, the woman has got to actually believe she is in control coz sure as eggs are eggs, the dog will try it on if she's faking it!

I have only ever hurt Cassie once, when I lost my rag with her and hit her on the rump with her rubber ball, just as she was about to take off after fox who was heading through the bushes into a road, my instinct took over and in my eyes it was the only way I was going to stop her, which it certainly did coz she screamed out in pain, and my instant reaction was to cuddle her very, very tightly to say how sorry I was. I know it was terribly, terribly wrong of me and I feel sick even thinking about it now, but I like to think I probably saved her from getting run over.

Another time when I completely lost it with her was when we were off up to the horse on a very cold wet morning and I had just purchased a new coat for her which covered her completely and meant she had to actually step into it and be nice and quiet for me to get it on her. Well, you can imagine what I went through this particular morning, and I just yelled at the top of my voice (including the red face) at her and told her unless she sat quietly and let me put it on she wouldn't be going up to the horse. Well, that dog came to the middle of the kitchen when I called her over, she lifted each front leg in turn, then stood up quietly whilst I put her hind legs in it, and then let me zip it up along the back! NOT A MURMER - until the last bit of the zip was finished! So I would assume that my shouting actually works on some occassions, coz ever since that day, every time that coat came out, the same thing happened

I know for a fact my rescue gsd has been beaten in the past, coz one night I went to retrieve a carrot out of his mouth (I had given him the smaller one by mistake instead of the big one!) and as I said his name and quickly reached for the carrot, he put his ears back and cowered down. I felt sick inside, to think he would actually think that I was gonna hit him!!! I cuddled him to death, and reassured him that I don't do things like that to any of my dogs. Poor little man, thinking that.

So, to sum up my experiences, yes, I have yelled and shouted at all of my dogs in the past but it worked for me, BUT, I have never ever laid a finger on them to reinforce any of my instructions, except for that one time with the ball, which I deeply regret, and as long as you balance the good with the bad and offer copious amounts of affection anytime, anyplace, anywhere then I'm sure a good bonding will take place.

I totally agree too with the "one step ahead" theory, that is a MUST in my book!