I've worked with children in the 'care' system...and have friends who went through it. If I told you one of my best friends was raped repeatedly whilst in care would that still make you think the analogy isn't a good one? No...she wasn't PTS but ...
The children in the 'care' system are let down everyday of their lives and suffer terrible abuse at the hands of other children and sometimes those who are 'caring' for them. No, they may not be PTS but you know what they do not have a great time of it.
Bakc ontopic though...yes...some sort of breeding restrictions should be put in place but in the meantime to discourage good breeding is surely wrong as well? Cosmo's breeder has never had a dog she has bred to her either returned or go through rescue (yet...never say never and all that) and she has been breeding for a long while now..should she not do it anymore? I can't see why she shouldn't

I will now always have a rescue as well...but I suspect I will also have a pup from a breeder. Who knows though.

Oh Ailso - no. This is not a good analogy. For what happens in a care home I will find you another where it happens in a family home. I know I've been there. And this is now too raw.

As to what I think of breeders, read my posts. I am not against, but its not for MY conscience.
Really, nuff said.

That is so very sad, and I am sure it is repeated the country over A friend's mother decided to buy a male and female Bichon Frise to start breeding ... why? Because she liked the breed and to make a bit of extra money It is a huge problem, and one I cannot see around unfortunately.

I think, with the situation as it is, this is what it boils down to - what suits your circumstances, and what you can live with.

I have had rescues and pups from breeders. I will probably have a mix of both in future, but my next GSD will definitely be a rescue. I do admit to feeling slightly guilty at choosing a pup from a breeder when I see all the GSDs in rescue needing a home. However, at the time of choosing my latest dog, it seemed a pup from a reputable breeder was the most sensible option for me at the time (a very young baby at home).

i know, i think its terrible that people see dogs like that. i think that, unfortunately, the country must be full of them. and its breeders like that that i dont agree with, they have no clue...

Sorry anyone who has a bitch that has a litter is a breeder

The Oxford English dictionary defines a breeder as someone who breeds animals, so if your bitch has a litter of puppies or your dog sires a litter you are a breeder-irrespective of whether it was planned or not.

Anyone who allows their dog(s)to produce unplanned litters is a very irresponsible breeder-not simply a dog owner whose bitch or dog has produced offspring.

Totally understand and accept that, for Showing the dog has to be a papered pedigree and no reputable rescue adopts dogs out with papers [ nor entire of course ]. I was being more general, apologies for any confusion on that point.

I should perhaps clarify also, [ not aimed at you as you already know my stance I think ], I wholeheartedly support ethical breeders and have no qualms at all about anyone buying a pup from an ethical breeder, but there are so many breeders out there who do everything wrong that they should never be supported by having people buy from them, if the market were not there for them the number of dogs in rescue [ which bad/careless breeders are mostly responsible for either through churning out so many or from selling to the first person to part with their cash without any regard for suitability of that buyer for the dog in question ], would drop drastically so I would hope people will consider pups or adults from a rescue over any unethical breeder, and for people to just realise in the first place that yes rescue`s do have newborns too so if wanting a puppy, [which is not wanted for Show potential ], then a rescue pup is a far better choice than a pup from any unethical breeder.

I have to say, as a breeder myself, I have always found dogsey a friendly place to be, even the very pro-rescue people have never made me feel bad about breeding,

I do sometimes feel though, that people say things about breeders with very limited knowlage on breeders,

the people that lozzie knows that want to breed dogs for money are at best naive, at worst they will produce very poor quality pups who may or may not have health issues,
to me these people are not "breeders" they are back yard breeders who have little or no knowlage.

Sorry, but ANYOE who has a bitch that producers a litter of puppies is a breeder.

It is not down to quantity or planning that makes a breeder.

You only have to have one child to become a parent.

One litter makes you a breeder

By what definition, do you class the person that bred Jake, not a breeder!!

i dont agree with that at all. give me all the oxford dictionary definitions you want, i just dont agree with that. if someone 'breeds' it is intentional, an accidental litter isnt intentional. its like when people say getting a dog from a rescue is supporting the breeder, how do they work that one out... that really bugs me.

yeah, i agree. its for people like that that i think licenses should come out to stop... people like that shouldnt have animals, they just see them as money machines.

i think planning does make a breeder. if jake was to accidentally father a litter (cant happen coz he is neutered but just for talking sake...) i would never consider myself a breeder. if he got loose and found an in season bitch, there would be no intention on my part... so why should i get called a breeder??