I think you're wasting your breath Jacquie There will always be those people that have to have a dig at the showing world, some of them have never even shown a dog so how they can comment is beyond me...a bit like me saying something was disgraceful in the agility or obedience rings, I know nothing about either so keep my oar well and truly out of the argument

As in everything, there is good and bad, but I have never seen anyone mistreat their dogs at a show, and rest assured, I may be a nice person but I would stand up to a bully and I would make damn sure they were reported to the appropriate people and that their fellow exhibitors were made aware of what they had done. But that's no different to if I saw someone mistreating a dog in any way.

At the end of the day, everyone on Dogsey is here because we love our dogs...just because we choose to do a hobby with them that doesn't appeal to certain members, doesn't mean we care any less of our dogs, and I for one am fed up with having to justify my pleasure. I can assure anyone that wants to know that Henry adores showing, if he didn't then he wouldn't have to do it, he is my pet and I want him to enjoy life, he doesn't flinch when I run him on a taut lead, he just wags his tail, turns to the audience and requests that all eyes are on him as he struts his stuff...that's a good enough reason for me to show him, it's a hobby that we can enjoy together and if anyone has anything to say about the way I show my boy..i.e. strung up, as some call it, then maybe they need to take it up with me personally or report me to the Kennel Club for cruelty...it might be a better idea if they came and watched us and see how animated he becomes when I get his show lead out of the bag

the other oddity i note is when cesar milan props dogs heads up with his illusion collar that is considered as unkind and stressful for the dog, yet when similar equipment and techniques are used in showing dogs this is not an issue?

What are the similarities you refer to? Are you suggesting that running my dog with a taut lead is propping his head up?

ETA I've never read any of the CM threads, not interested so I really don't know what you are suggesting.

cesar milan insists dog should always have their heads forced up when walking, ie, no sniffing etc.
he has even designed a collar to make this happen.

yes, im am referring to what you say what you do with your dog.
i note, like CM, their is show equipment propping dogs head and collar high.
those little taut stringy looking leads.

I've already put a photo up of Henry on the move, the lead keeps him under control otherwise, in his excitement he jumps up at me and lunges at other dogs to play, he will grow out of that, but the lead goes around his neck, his head could still be in a downward position if he chose to put it that way, it's not a halti, after all. The lead is taut but is not strangling him, his feet are not off the ground other than in normal movement, he is not gasping for breath, nor is he retching, and his tail is wagging so how am I strangling him or doing anything wrong?

If he chose to put his nose to the ground he still can as my arms are flexible and go with his movement, the lead is taut purely to stop him jumping about, no different than if we are passing an unknown dog whilst out on a walk.

I've never seen any show equipment that you put on a dog to prop it's head up and collar high as you state

As I said, I've never read anything about CM or seen anything on tv about him and have been showing for almost 20 years...I've always shown happy dogs and never been told off for a taut lead

Which breed do you show?

The lead isnt tight though Kruse, thats the point, if it were it would have the same effect on the dogs we see with some CM dogs, they would choke. How many show dogs have you seen choke? It can also help to move them in a straighter line for the judge and turn the corners easier, as you turn into the dog. I use a thin taut lead, she doesnt gag or choke, but for the most part she keeps her head up, thats all.

me, show, no chance!

Have I stated otherwise?? if a horse is going to bolt , it will bolt regardless of it having a bit in its mouth.

Have never said or taken issue with that.

My point was (again) was in answer to the suggestion that some people can ride a horse bare back, hence my answer, it is not practical or safe to ride our horses , on roads without tack.

Personally, don't see why there is a need to keep compairing x to y and y to z.

The lead might be taut, but a show dog happily trotting round a ring is hardly the same as a dog having its breathing restricted via a sliplead, as CMs has done.

I don't get it, if people dislike showing so much why do they watch it and why, do they then feel the need to keep going on about how much they don't like it and how it must be cruel, as they don't agree with it.

As I've said, I don't like the movement of the dogs in parts of ob, so I try not to watch those bits...I know, isn't that logical. However, doesn't mean I think it is cruel, it just doesn't do it for me, thats all.

I'm not surprized those who show on here get defencive and tired...I'm weary of it to.