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Carole
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19-11-2007, 09:58 AM
As this boxer puppy is only 7 months old you have to be very careful not to over exercise her.

She sounds a very headstrong puppy that needs boundaries set for her. One thing I learned was never back down to a boxer as they remember and push you harder next time.
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zoeybeau1
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19-11-2007, 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by Carole View Post
As this boxer puppy is only 7 months old you have to be very careful not to over exercise her.

She sounds a very headstrong puppy that needs boundaries set for her. One thing I learned was never back down to a boxer as they remember and push you harder next time.
I totally agree here with carole, dont back down if she jumps on you you tell her down and reward her for doing it, albeit praise or a treat but dont treat the bad behavouir only the postitve behavour we have a 6 month old bitch pup and a 9 mth dog at the minute, as well as the adults and the bitch lexi isnt beyond the nipping stage but she's learning with positive behaviour, i would say relaxe on the treats as maybe she is asking julie for treats by jumping up. but at 7 months she's very much the baby and will continue to learn through out her life so the rules laid down now are the most important, she wont stop growing till 2 years old and all the work put in now makes her so put in the most postivie work, and if you feel youre getting cross with her back off and leave her for 10 mins will you have a coffee or whatever, then come back to her.
I've found if there very food orintated i'l train while there hungry and there more focused, dont send her to her cage as a punishment or she'l see it as a scarey place, not somewhere as comfort for her, you could place a towel or blanket over the cage to make it more comforting it works for us, look forward to hearing how mollie gets on xxzbxx
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pod
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19-11-2007, 10:34 AM
Originally Posted by JonRock View Post
Is it just that she is so dominant, she cant help herself? Is it in the genes - we just dont know!

It is perfectly normal to have a range of different temperaments within a litter, and to have some that appear more dominant than others. The more dominant ones will learn that they can overpower their littermates but they should also learn that they too can be physically controlled and this is one very important role of the dam.

Puppies learn right from the start that they submit to a greater power when the dam turns them over for cleaning, and this is continued right through the early weeks while she is allowed access to them.

If the dam of this litter was not allowed adequate access to the litter, particularly in the later weeks, it could be that this puppy established herself as the dominant member and didn't receive any corrective treatment from the dam, so promoting her position further.

The humans involved can do a lot to help in a situation like this by gently holding down the puppy till she relaxes but this should be done when the puppy is very young. I want to make this very clear Jon, I'm not suggesting you do this now.

Also, what could also have contributed to this is the spaying. The associated change in hormones can cause an increase in aggression in young bitches.

What I'm saying altogether Jon is that this isn't necessarily the fault of her genes entirely. It could well be that her genes do predispose her to be one of the more dominant members of the canine race but circumstances in this instance could have cumulated to promote a display of aggression.

I would agree with the suggestion already made... to find a good behaviourist, and one who works by the dominance theory.
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Meg
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19-11-2007, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by JonRock View Post
Hi

I wrote on here a couple of months ago about our now 7 month old boxer Mollie, and her becoming seemingly aggressive when she crossed over the road when on walks.

Fortunately, she seems to have overcome this, certainly when crossing over the road.

However, she always seems to have been very dominant, even from when we first had her at 8 weeks. In hindsight, we know it was wrong, but we bought her, having never seen the mother with her, or the rest of the litter. We visited the home on a couple of occassions, as it was easily 3/4 of an hours drive away, however the mother and father were always shut outside, and never seemed to be with the pups. The owner told us that the father sometimes played with them but the mother didn't seem to.

When visiting the owner told us that Mollie seemed to be the boss of the pack.Unfortunately, looking back, we didnt realise the consequences of this!

She has always had problems on the lead since we've had her, putting paws on the lead and jumping up at us and growling. We have taken her to puppy classes, and learnt the basics such as sit and down etc, which she seems to cope with pretty well, although particularly when there is food around - the rest of the time it takes some persuasion!

However, we have noticed that she seems to lose it, the eyes glaze over and she is very difficult to control. In the past, we have always made excuses for her (hormones, overtired,traffic, food colourings etc etc). In fact, we changed her food as a pup from Baker, with all of the colourings to more natural products - on the suggestion of our trainer, and this seemed to make a difference at that time.

We have in the last month had her spayed (before any season as we were told this was best), and hoped this would be a way of calming her down.

However, all of the time she is still being dominant, particularly with my partner Julie. She is almost constantly jumping up and mouthing her, apparently trying to be above her in the pack. She is always biting jumpers and coats etc. After watching the Dog Whisperer ( I know from previous comments on this website that it is not always that favourably viewed BUT we are at wits end, to be honest!), we recognised a lot of problematic dogs that had similar traits to Mollie. Therefore, we have been trying to put her in her place in the pack, below the humans.

It seemed to be working for the first 3/4 days, but she has come back with a vengeance, being very aggresive towards Julie in particulr - even I haven't been able to control her tonight. She ran outside in the snow, got very excited, came back in, was jumping on Julie, trying to mouth her (which she has been constantly doing all weekend), bit her finger and drew blood, and then became uncontrollaby aggresive. When I grabbed her house line, she raised up on her back legs, put both front paws on it, and was growling, snarling and trying to bite me! Fortunately, we managed to get her outside and we isolated her, for a considerable time. When she came back in, it was as though butter wouldnt have melted!

However, putting her to bed later tonight, after tea and a good walk, she started again. Bribery with cream cheese was the only thing that would work to get her in her crate to go to sleep.

We are at our wits end with her dominating attitude and aggression. Fortunately, she has only ever been aggressive towards me and Julie and our eldest daughter (aged 19), and we have sort of been able to deal with her as best we can when she turns. However, if she were to ever go for our 2 youngest kids (14 & 9), I know they wouldnt be able to fend her off, and calm her down.

What can we do!!

Please help - tonights episode was almopst the last straw - she seems to be getting more intensively aggressive towards us.

As I say, this is a trained dog in terms of the basics, but we know this behaviour is unacceptable, and we cannot risk the possibility of her hurting any of our children - the way she is going this is becoming increasingly probable!

Please help - we dont know what to do, we want to keep her but we cant risk the kids!!
Hi Jon I am pleased you have solved the problem you originally posted about.
I have commented on your post with what I hope is constructive advice my comments and observations are not meant as criticism and I hope you appreciate this

What your post above says to me is that you have some preconceived ideas about dominance, that you allowed your puppy to develop bad behaviour without checking it and that you and some of your family are a little afraid of your puppy. The latter may make it very difficult for you to correct the situation because you will lack the confidence to do so. I will say now if you think this is real aggression or you can't handle the situation ask your vet to refer you to a behaviourist.


I can only comment on the situation as I see it based on your post, you don't say what you have done to correct the jumping up and mouthing or to check the boisterous behaviour. This sounds to me like the behaviour of a typical overexcited boxer that has had little guidance as to what is acceptable behaviour, all to often you hear people with puppies saying 'no don't do that' but failing to tell he puppy what it is allowed to do or praising good calm behaviour .

What would I do , first the jumping up, this should have been checked when the puppy was small.
The main part of a puppies day is spent in play, once the litter mates are gone the puppy has no other playmate but your family and it will do all it can to get your attention and to keep it . One way to get your attention is by jumping up, by pulling away/speaking to the puppy you are rewarding it with attention.I would make it clear to the puppy that the behaviour would not get your attention, this means folding your arms across your chest/no word/no eye contact/turn your back and do this for however long it takes the dog to be quiet. If she comes around to the front of you stand against the wall or turn your back again,when it fails to work she may try harder to get your attention for a few moments (an extinction burst, like calling someones name louder when they ignore you ) but be patient and this method will work . After a few moments with no attention the dog usually sits, then you can praise/reward her with a tip bit from your pocket, if she walks away call her to you/ask her to sit and praise/treat.
Everyone in the house needs to use the same method, and yes it does work if you stick at it with patience/firmness/consistency.

Now the mouthing/biting. Biting is normal behaviour in puppies, if a puppy doesn't bite there is something wrong with it . Puppies bite for a number of reasons, to explore the world around them/during play/and when teething.

If you watch a litter of puppies playing they bite each other in turn/yelp/run away, this is 'Play biting' and they soon learn how much they can bite each other without inflicting pain and bringing play to an end. When we take on a puppy we need to continue the teaching which was interrupted when the puppy left its litter mates.

Play biting is best curbed and channelled in the right direction when the puppy is small an ideally before the age of 4 month. A puppy should be encouraged to bite ever more gently until no pressure is exerted at all, this is called 'bite inhibition' and it is one of the most important things you can teach a puppy. If taught correctly it means as puppy grows up and develops powerful jaws, should she bite for any reason (like if she is in in pain/at the vets being treated /gets accidentally hurt) she will have been taught never to sink his teeth into human skin.
I have a 5 month old puppy who was a terrible biter, she has been taught bite inhibition and is very good now but still forgets occasionally when over excited.

Teaching a puppy bite inhibition takes time and patience and won't be achieved in just a few days also again it requires everyone in the household to adopt the same approach.

Link to teaching bite inhibition ..
click here

You talk about 'isolating her', this like 'time out' may give the puppy a few moments to calm down but it teaches them nothing, they ain't children and don't sit and reflect on bad behaviour.

Now the positive, give your puppy plenty of things to occupy her mind and use up excess energy , things like puzzle cubes are good or you can invent games I rigged up a game with a toy and a pair of elasticated tights tied to the washing line, it acts like a bungee rope and my puppy spend hours jumping and swinging on it(this play must be watched in case the pup gets tangled up, never leave it alone with this toy).

Hide and seek is another good game to tire a puppy

Make sure your puppy has lots of safe things to chew, it should have cut most of its adult teeth now but they will be settling into the jaws.


Lastly never forget to praise good behaviour and this includes when the puppy is sitting calmly or playing gently.
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IsoChick
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19-11-2007, 12:13 PM
I agree with Mini and Carole on this!

Murphy is 5 months old and can be a little sh!t when he wants to be. He gets WAY over-excited when we get ready to go on a walk, and has taken to jumping up and grabbing my hands/trousers etc.

He's nearly 2 stone already, so when he jumps up and doofs me in the stomach, it's not pretty!

We've taken to turning our backs on him, folding arms, no eye contact until he calms down. It's actually taken a while, but he's eventually realising that he has to be calm to get attention.

Its sounds like Mollie is trying it on with you, to see how far she can go. Whenever she mouths or jumps up, the noises and movement from you are a "reward" for her.

She sounds pretty normal for a Boxer puppy - slightly mental, over excitable, not sure what is acceptable...

You need to make sure that everyone in the house knows the rules and follows them. It won't hurt to have a small stash of titbits handy, but only for when Mollie is quiet and sitting/lying down nicely. When she does this of her own accord, reward her. Don't "make" her do it, but wait until she is calm....

Hope some of the ideas and advice on this thread help you! Don't give up, she's only 7 months old!
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