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Moobli
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28-06-2011, 09:47 AM
I was absolutely appalled to see this has happened before with this same experienced officer No wonder he has tried to kill himself. I have no doubt at all he will be devastated/distraught etc ... but there is just no excuse. None at all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-heat-car.html

Two police dogs, one of them a puppy, died when their handler left them locked in his car on one of the hottest days of the year.

The officer, Sergeant Ian Craven, one of the country's most experienced dog trainers, slashed his wrists when he learnt of their deaths.

He was taken to hospital after the apparent suicide attempt, and could now face prosecution for animal cruelty.

It is the second time he has been responsible for the death of a dog left in a vehicle.

He was disciplined over the loss of a spaniel at the Metropolitan Police's prestigious dog training centre in July 2004 – but went on to be promoted.

In Sunday's incident the animals collapsed in the rear of his airless car as temperatures rose to 29c (84f) at the same training centre.

Staff pulled the Belgian malinois Chay and five-month-old alsatian Milly from the vehicle by smashing its closed windows.

They doused the dogs in water and raced them to an emergency vet but nothing could be done.

Kennel assistant, Tina Dale, 54, who was among those who tried to save the animals, described it as the 'worst day of my life'.

She said on a social networking site: 'The suffering those dogs went through is too unbearable to think about. I'm in bits, we tried so so hard, but it was too long, the damage had been done. What a bloody awful way to die.'

Animal welfare charities called for Sergeant Craven to face the full force of the law.

Jan Creamer, head of Animal Defenders International, said: 'It is the golden rule that you never ever leave dogs in hot cars.
'While we do not doubt that this was a tragic accident, we would have thought that the Met Police dog unit should be setting an example to others.
'We would question why dogs were in the car at all as there are kennelling facilities on-site, we believe.
'Surely it should have been standard operating procedure to put the dogs in kennels on hot days.'

The dying Belgian Malinois and German Shepherd were discovered at the Met's dog training centre in Keston, Kent, by a member of staff as temperatures reached 29C

Chay was used by police for breeding and Milly was still being trained.

They were discovered in the back of Mr Craven's private estate car at the training centre in Keston, Kent, at 11am on Sunday.

The alarm was raised in a phone call from Mr Craven, who had travelled to work at the Olympic site in East London, several hours earlier. He was on his way back to Keston with other officers when he was told that the animals had died.

He jumped from the car and fled. He was found by colleagues on a canal path after apparently attempting to take his own life and was taken to hospital.

Temperatures reached 29C at the Keston dog training centre yesterday, before a member of staff discovered the dying animals in a vehicle

Investigators from the RSPCA have begun an investigation which could lead to criminal charges. The Met's Directorate of Professional Standards are also looking into the incident and the Independent Police Complaints Commission have been informed.

Animal Cruelty is punishable by a maximum jail term of 51 weeks, a fine of up to £20,000 and a lifetime ban on keeping pets.

Sergeant Craven, who has more than 30 years' experience in the police was visited in hospital by Chief Superintendent Julia Pendry, of the Met's central operations wing which oversees the force's dog units.

In 2006 he featured prominently on a BBC Breakfast TV series about the work of handlers at the Met's centre.

Two years ago a Nottinghamshire police officer left two dogs to bake to death in his car. Constable Mark Johnson, 40, who left his two German shepherds to die in July 2009, was given a six-month conditional discharge and fined £2,500 last year.

Animal charities said dogs can die in as little as 20 minutes inside vehicles as temperatures quickly soar to 40c (104f).
An RSPCA spokesman said: 'In hot weather we would urge people never to leave dogs in vehicles for any length of time.'

The tragedy comes a year after a Nottinghamshire police officer was prosecuted when two German Shepherds died in the back of his sweltering car.

PC Mark Johnson escaped prison and was handed a six-month conditional discharge.

The 40-year-old returned to the force but is no longer working as a dog handler and was assigned to duties in south Nottinghamshire as an ordinary response officer
During his trial at Nottingham Magistrates' Court on February 22, the judge was told PC Johnson suffered from depression and obsessive compulsive disorder.
This led to him forgetting that he had left the dogs in his car which was parked at Nottinghamshire Police's Sherwood Lodge headquarters near Arnold on June 30 of 2009, the court heard.

During PC Johnson's February trial, the court heard he arrived at work with 18-month-old Jay-Jay and Jet, seven, on one of the hottest days of last year where temperatures peaked at nearly 30C.

He planned to move the two Alsatians into an air-conditioned police car but he got distracted and set about attending meetings and completing his paperwork.
PC Johnson told a court last year that he forgot he had left the animals in searing heat outside Nottinghamshire Police's HQ in Arnold, just north of Nottingham

Seven hours later, after a meeting with a sergeant about his mental health problems, the police officer remembered he had left them in the back of his own car and rushed out to find them dead.
The dogs suffered severe heatstroke and would have gone through 'excruciating pain' before they died of kidney failure and cerebral haemorrhage, the trial was told.

PC Johnson, a married father-of-one who has nearly 18 years' service, was suspended at the time of his trial. Police chiefs said following the verdict he would face an internal disciplinary panel.

Nottinghamshire Police was also severely criticised by district judge Tim Devas after it emerged PC Johnson was suffering from depression and OCD but found it difficult to get help.
His illness meant he simply forgot to move his dogs from his own black Ford Mondeo Estate, it was claimed.
He also regularly broke down in tears and was afraid to admit he might have a problem because he believed it could see him transferred off the dog section.
Sentencing PC Johnson, Mr Devas said: 'I have no doubt that had PC Johnson received the help he needed then he wouldn't be standing before me here today.'
Nottinghamshire Police received thousands of emails and calls from dog lovers after the case first hit the headlines last year.
It has since enforced a number of changes.
All dogs must be kept in kennels whilst at Sherwood Lodge and handlers have been given key fobs which alert them to any change in their car's temperature.
PC Johnson is currently paying off £2,500, a contribution towards the costs of the RSPCA's prosecution. But he has not been banned from keeping animals.
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Moobli
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28-06-2011, 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by Luthien View Post
It was on the main BBC news. If you are going to start Royal bashing I will have to see you in the car park outside...
I watched BBC News 24 and there was no mention LOL @ royal bashing ... not at all, but I just think the death of two dogs is more important (just my personal opinion )
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chaz
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28-06-2011, 09:56 AM
I can't believe it, these people are meant to be responsible and take care off others aren't they? And yet they can't even use their brains enough to not leave dogs in a hot car? These people obvioulsy don't care, or have any brains, and possibly both, why do people leave dogs in cars, I don't get it, I think that these people should be left in one so that they can see what its like, I mean the other weekend I was in one of them big blow up balls that people can run around in like hamsters, that was hot enough, I'd hate to know how it feels to be in a car with no way of getting out

R.I.P poor dogs, let down by those that are meant to look after you.
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ami_j
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28-06-2011, 10:40 AM
Originally Posted by wormole View Post
Had a look on their website and found this link to "complain about a member of our staff":

https://secure.met.police.uk/complaints/

or here for "customer feedback":

https://secure.met.police.uk/yourvoicecounts/index.php

I don't think it will make any difference, but the only thing we can do for those poor dogs is to voice our disgust directly to the met.
Sadly , this will be pointless...When Julia Pendry made her attack on "pitbull types" saying they should just be destroyed and no trial given to prove their innocenc, then took a dog out which mauled a member of the publics dog, a lot of people used this to contact and complain about it to the met...they bascially sent a letter saying they didnt have to do anything as it wasnt me involved and they werent...they really dont care
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JoedeeUK
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28-06-2011, 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by Collie Convert View Post
Apalling that this has happened...again.



I dont think there is need to tar them all with the same brush. I worked at a police dog training centre and every single handler was there because they wanted to be there and care deeply for their dogs.
Plus, my OH is a copper

How long ago did work at the PD training centre ??

I know a good few PD handlers, some of them are real dog handlers but sadly some are police officers with a dog.

At our local PD section, they no longer train the dogs from scratch, they buy in fully trained dogs from Eastern Europe, if the dogs do not obtain their PD license they are shipped back & another supplied in it's place. Their drugs/explosive dogs come fully trained from the Army dog training school. To become a PD handler, all the officers have to do is apply & wait for a slot to turn up
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Collie Convert
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28-06-2011, 10:51 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
How long ago did work at the PD training centre ??

I know a good few PD handlers, some of them are real dog handlers but sadly some are police officers with a dog.

At our local PD section, they no longer train the dogs from scratch, they buy in fully trained dogs from Eastern Europe, if the dogs do not obtain their PD license they are shipped back & another supplied in it's place. Their drugs/explosive dogs come fully trained from the Army dog training school. To become a PD handler, all the officers have to do is apply & wait for a slot to turn up
Where did you get this piece of info from?
I worked there up until a year or so ago.
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TabithaJ
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28-06-2011, 11:38 AM
And this ba$tard was disciplined over the death of another dog back in 2004!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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JoedeeUK
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28-06-2011, 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by Collie Convert View Post
Where did you get this piece of info from?
I worked there up until a year or so ago.
From one of their new "Dog Handlers"who had been on the waiting list for years, he collects his dog from the kennels in a week to start his training(not the dog's training) as well as others employed in the Dog Section.

One of my Dog handler friends thinks the quality of handlers has diminished quickly over the last 5 years or so, since they have been importing fully trained dogs. He learnt his"trade"the hard way, first owning his own GSD from a puppy & doing WT with him(successfully)& when he passed away, he finally got into the dog section(local rules DH are not allowed to own personal GSDs(other than retired PDs)& be a DH).

Also what I know from seeing their application forms for the Dog Section & the letters/e mails sent out advising the outcome of the applications

Not hearsay you see straight from the "horse's mouth"so to speak
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smokeybear
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28-06-2011, 11:43 AM
Each police force has their own discrete policies re Police Dogs;

Some have their own breeding programmes (pioneered by steve dean at metpol several years ago)
some rely on gift dogs
some buy some dogs in from here and abroad

So there is a real mish mash.

Some INstructors still train from the MoD book circa 1920 and some have moved on and have enlightened instructors who know how to get the best out of dogs of all descriptions.

So you cannot really compare forces, it all comes down to individuals and how forward thinking they are plus economics.

A lot of people marvel at police dogs, but they too vary; some are good on the lead, useless off; some have natural aggression some go through the motions.

The handlers vary too, from skilled practitioners who attend seminars from continental experts to those who have no real understanding of how a dog works.

And MY info comes from:

Dog breeders
Police dog INstructors
police dog handlers
Police dog examiners.

I have been competing (and beating) the police in civvi trials and police v civvie competitions for a decade or more! As well as training with them..........
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JoedeeUK
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28-06-2011, 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Each police force has their own discrete policies re Police Dogs;

Some have their own breeding programmes (pioneered by steve dean at metpol several years ago)......
Ah yes the famous Steve Dean, who of course claimed to have bred HD out of the Met dogs so why do their dogs still have scores higher than 0:0=0 ???

I trained with the Met dogs long before Steve Dean was even a beat bobby, back then at least the handlers were actually Dog Handlers rather than Police Officers with dogs.

When I was competing in WT the police dogs went straight to the WD stakes(this was changed in 2007 or 200 meaning that I never came across them until the WD stake & as I stopping competing with my small BC(she was under 15 inches)after qualifying her UD Ex because of the Scale height I never got the chance to compete against licensed PDs.

I do have a friend who still competes with her dogs & she qualified her first WT dog(A cross)to TD Ex, winning an WT CC & her 2nd WT dog(also a cross)is currently WD Ex after just one year of trials so she too must be beating any PD dogs that compete
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