I used to own a 'working' JRT many years ago........defo wouldn't of clouted her. She was A Rotti in disguise .............but one of the most obedient dogs I have ever owned

hitting a dog around the ears or any bump on the ears can lead to all sorts of problems including a haematoma and a withered ear, it is defiantly not to be recommended .

[QUOTE=Westie_N;1364146]My god, what a load of tosh! Not all terriers who have never had a "clout around the ear" misbehave and are stroppy little dogs who are so spoiled that they cannot behave! I know plenty who behave with without the use of violence in their training.

I have a Westie,QUOTE]

Quite.

I've had them too and they are totally incomparable to a working terrier. Unless you're seriously telling me you have a working Westie (lmfao) you have absolutely no idea about the kind of dog I'm talking about. Is yours a pack animal? I seriously doubt it. It's astonishing how quick to judge people can be, particularly when they have no idea what they are talking about. Not everyone who owns terriers is about prancing them around a ring or trips to the shops, some use them for the purpose they were bred for.

I have no issue with any of you, nor would I disparage anyone for enjoying their dog for an aesthetic reason. Working dogs, however, are a different matter and I would like to think you would do me the courtesy of reading my post in its entirety before passing value judgements. My deerhounds have never given me the cause to clip them- a terrier with its blood up is a different matter all together.

I'd also clarify, a clip around the ear is a turn of phrase. I'm not suggesting someone literally beat a dog around the head. Is this forum totally lacking in nous? All opinions are valid but please people, drop the sanctimony. Loving animals doesn't require their deification. In front of a top end breeder I gave a terrier a tap on the bottom for growling at another btich and she agreed that it was a sensible response to a stroppy bitch. Hurting the dog is not the point, it's simply a means of putting them back in their box- a gentle short sharp shock.

Punishing a dog is pointless as it is after the fact and is simply cruel- catching a dog in the process of serious disobedience is another matter all together and should be dealt with. If your terrier (Westies are a different kettle of fish) responds to "No little Timmy, please don't eat that cat, you can have a chew chew!" then marvellous. The reality is though that working (do I need to bold that again) terriers are likely to give you the finger and promptly remove said pussy's bowels.

My wife (her login, she simply asked me to defend my views so flame me, not her) thinks I'm being mean but quite frankly I think there is a sanctimonous air about this thread and people are mistaking genuine working terriers with trip to the shop pets.

All the best



J M O.

Relevance of rehoming comment sweetie? I'm not commenting on abused dogs here. I'd redirect you to your earlier posts on this thread but clearly hypocrisy rules here. I've had many dogs (several rehomed after abuse) who have never required so much as a sharp tap. Other breeds are less obedient. A Wolfhound is not a Beagle is not a Sealyham. And none of the above are Westies. Are you so presumptuous as to assume you can train anything? A dog's nature is inherent and to try and quell it rather than curb its excesses is as presumptuous as thinking that a quick talking to works for any dog out there. Beating the bejesus out of a dog is the last thing I'm advocating. A slap on the rumpus for deliberately misbehaving, very occasionally, is another all together.

J M O.

Ish.

Yes I agree that all dogs are different to an extent
But I dont think any dogs are naughty - dogs just do what is most rewarding to them (and of course to different breeds different things are rewarding)
so if a dog does not come back then it is because what it is doing at the time is more rewarding than you are
so hitting it makes you even less rewarding

That is not to say I do not let dogs know I think they have made the wrong choice
I have an antireward noise 'ahhhahhh' to let them know thats not what I wanted

Also your body and tone of voice tell far far more to a dog

Ben has a really good recal most of the time
but as a pup he was really carsick so he does not like going in the car. so he will not come back if he thinks we are going in the car
so fair nuff - I just put the lead on him before we leave the house
no point yelling at him - poor wee soul - I used to be carsick I totaly understand

If he has run off (and he stays in the park within eyesight if he goes out of eyesight I hide so he is worried I will dissapear if he runs off) I just call him once and then I walk him down keeping eyecontact, then I put him on the lead and ignore him while I walk him back
I also get a perfect heel


This thread reminds me of a situation I saw once
2 small boys one about 4 the other 6 out with their mum and dad
the 6yo one hits the 4yo and makes him cry
dad angry grabs the 6yo and hits him again and again saying 'You dont hit someone who is smaller than you!'
the child didnt cry at all just looked all the way up at the big dad and then down at the little brother
the look said it all - but you are bigger than me!!
as far as I could see all he had learnt was not to hit brother infront of dad, dad was a bully, and that dad didnt practice what he preached

McPherson, I don't think this thread is being sanctimonious. People are just giving their experiences. As for the forum not having the nous, its very difficult when someone "borrows" a login and expounds their view. You almost have to take them literally - because they may mean it literally. People who you know for a while you can understand what they mean when they say something, but when you are new-ish, its more difficult.

I am a terrier owner who doesn't feel it necessary to smack my dogs.
I do agree with you that when terriers blood is up it is a different kettle of fish, and that is where I would use a stern voice, and not my usual happy one.

No way would I say "please leave that cat alone, have a nice chew chew" - I command the cat is left. The training I have done before should ensure that my command is followed.

I know if physical correction was used at that point , then the terriers feistiness could translate into a bite. I am not in the habit of putting myself in the way of a bite.

I don't show my terrier, neither do I walk her to the shops. She's not a lap dog by any means. I don't work her as a ratter, so I do give her other things to do to exercise that awesome brain. Yes, that includes agility and obedience.

I'll say again I have never raised a hand to my terriers, training and voice have always been enough.

IS A SMACK AS BAD AS USING A SHOCK COLLAR ?

I have a stuborn little bisom of a terrier, but I wouldn't hit her because I have got impatient, I walk away...

e collars have a place in the right hands, it is a remote trainer, giving the advantage of touch at a distance, remember these collars have different settings, i think people who have used them to good effect should be able to comment without fear of being shot down in flames....so if any one has used one please feel free to tell us situations and advantages to using the e collar.
now I'm gonna stick my neck out here, I would rather use a remote trainer than smack the be jesus out my dog just my opinion.

Where I live that would mean he is always on the lead.

some times thats a draw back to having a dog though, my wee shar pei was on lead for 9 years

My friend keeps her shar-pei on a lead (a long one), she just walks for miles with him