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Lizzy23
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01-08-2009, 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
But we were talking about the picture someone posted and the opening credits, I did point out at the time in the picture he is doing what he calls his migratory walk which is done at a reasonable pace, not an amble. He too breaks into a run a random intervals.
We were and i'd love to know how he got to that, because it looks very impressive, unfortunately i'd have to be Usain Bolt to get in front of mine
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Mahooli
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01-08-2009, 07:52 AM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
Well, I suppose if they were around having a run about, it wouldn't really be possible to take a picture where the dogs could be properly seen. There's only so much a Photographer can do. I think the pic shows that CM has control over his offlead dogs, unless of course some think they are stuffed or sedated or something (that last comment is not pointed at you Rune)
A picture proves nothing, all it proves was that at the time the picture was taken the dogs were with him!

Originally Posted by alady?? View Post
Again I have to completely disagree with you Mahooli, sorry i think the cause of disagreement is mainly on the use and understanding of the word "dominant"

Agreed, as mentioned in a subsequent post, however, CM uses dominance to mean total control, that's what he advocates and that you can only apply dominance b using force. Both incorrect.

The Lion pride was cited as anothe example, again incorrect. The pride is made of of related females with unrelated adult males who protect and patrol their territory. No dominance there.

The young lions and lionesses NEVER feed before the old "dominant/governing" lions.

Show me a video clip which shows the lionesses, or indeed any other of the pride who willingly stand aside and wait while the males eat. I've yet to see that, it's always been a free for all at the Lion dining table including very young cubs.

The wolf pack, it has been proven time and again that the breeding pair are just that, the fittest and most able to breed, the remainder of the pack is usually made up of family members,

The last docu I watched on wolf behaviour the dominant/governing pair were pretty old and by no manner the fittest, they rule the pack by "governing" behaviour.

Maybe this is the wisdom part coming in, however I would dispute that a wolf (or indeed any animal) that is not fit would be able to remain a useful member of any pack or group of animals.

When animals fight it has nothing to do with dominance and all to do with survival of the fittest. That which is strong and powerful enough to see off rivals goes on to produce the next generation.

This is true, but in most species their is a big difference between a full blown fight and "governing" the pack/pride or whatever, generlly it is a warning or "told off" that is inflicted by the dominant/governing members

The reason animals use ritualise behaviours to demonstrate strength/vitality etc is because if a full fight ensures it is very risky to the animal concerned. Most animals will rather not fight unless they are certain they will win, this has resulted in their deaths if they have miscalculated their opponant. That is why, what some would call dominant, behaviours developed, it was a means of assessing your rival/enemy without risking injury.
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
You do not know - neither do we how he treats his own dogs, who walks them, feeds them or interacts with them on such a regular basis. With a pack that large I am surprised that he has time to interact with them all and work the hours he does....I find it hard enough to give (what I feel is enough time) to 6! But that is not to say he doesn't (or that he does) its all speculation.
Does anyone actually know whether he lives with dogs or are they only in that compound? If he doesn't or only lives with one or two then how can he train dogs to behave in a domestic environment when he has little or no experience of this aspect of dog ownership?

Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
I have watched 2 episodes which was enough for me to decide I would no longer give it my veiwing rating.
I will watch clips on youtube if people post them - I am sure my not watching will not get it off the air - but I can try.
I watch whatever has been posted and that which I have seen clips of on the telly and that is all I need to see. Just watched the clip of Shadow and was horrified that the dog's tongue was blue when he was pinned to the ground, no wonder the poor animal collapsed. If pro-CMers can't see that as wrong then they need their heads examined, and if he has done it to one dog just imagine what does go on behind the scenes.

Originally Posted by scarter View Post
I suppose the answer to that is that if your relationship with your dog is good then the dog will be watching you at all times and will want to respond to you.
I would disagree with this statement. A dog that is constantly watching it's owner for approval is not a relationship based on trust and respect. If the dog constantly needs to be told what it can and can't do and has to constantly seek approval from it's owner then it has either had it's spirit broken or is very stressed and nervous.
Dogs should be able to run free without worrying what it's owner is going to tell it what to do next. I want to see my dogs having the zoomies all running in a long line across a field with huge great smiles on their faces. I don't want them to do that solely because I have told them to. I want them to do it because they have decided that is what makes them happy!
Becky
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rune
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01-08-2009, 08:03 AM
Originally Posted by JuniorDaddy View Post
Well no-one or nothing else has helped me yet so you can't blame me for wishing someone would! Being as he's helped me (not personally unfortunately!) with other things maybe he could help with recall too! I must say it's not a massive deal for me, they aren't awful, they do have a little recall & we are lucky enough to live somewhere that we don't need to worry about other dogs or the road so we don't really need them to come back, it just would be nice if they did!!
How much training have you done with them?

I suppose they must come back eventually. Sounds like they are doing what they like and have you on a long string, they know you will wait around for them.

Opposite of CM's idea really.

rune
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ClaireandDaisy
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01-08-2009, 08:17 AM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Jog, sprint??


rune
Lurch, Hobble and Waddle (that well-known firm of athletic solicitors)...

Asking for Recall advice from CM followers was of course a `when did you stop beating your wife` question (sorry guys).
He is a Behaviourist, not a Trainer. Trainers teach you how to train your dog. Behaviourists explain and change your dog`s unwanted behaviours. So because 90% of dogs don`t have behavioural problems this programme is like learning cookery from the Fire Service.

just to make it clear that I personally would rather take advice on just about anything from a fireman (phwoah) or anyone else for that matter than than a tv doggyevangelist
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Lizzy23
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01-08-2009, 08:19 AM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post

I would disagree with this statement. A dog that is constantly watching it's owner for approval is not a relationship based on trust and respect. If the dog constantly needs to be told what it can and can't do and has to constantly seek approval from it's owner then it has either had it's spirit broken or is very stressed and nervous.
Dogs should be able to run free without worrying what it's owner is going to tell it what to do next. I want to see my dogs having the zoomies all running in a long line across a field with huge great smiles on their faces. I don't want them to do that solely because I have told them to. I want them to do it because they have decided that is what makes them happy!
Becky
Good post, there is nothing that makes me smile more than my lot, nose to the ground,,piling through the undergwowth at 300miles an hr

Robot springs to mind on the attention point, not a happy thinking dog.
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Lizzy23
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01-08-2009, 08:21 AM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
That made me lol---then cough so please try not to do it again!

I too am lurgified

rune

sorry rune will try not to do it again
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JoedeeUK
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01-08-2009, 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by alady?? View Post
.....................................And this is absolutely nothing like the behaviour of a wolf pack I have ever seen, animals learn by the behaviour of those "above" them, first their mother, then the rest of the pack, pride, their family, they learn by interaction and boundaries, in the animal kingdom the wayward juevenile WILL get put in its place if it does not behave in the proper manner, ie if it bites too hard, if it strays from the pack, if it tries to feed first ALL things that are encouraged in our behaviour with our dogs in order to maintain a healthy balance and order within our mixed specias family.
Have you seen a wolf pack outside of a captive environs ?

Studies done on anything other than native wild wolf packs is their natrual environs aren't worth a dime. Wolf packs consist of an fairly unrelated "Breeding"pair & their offspring from their litters, when the cubs reach sexual & physical maturity they leave the pack in search of a mate to strat up their own pack.

The youngest always eat first when the hunters return when the cubs are too young to join the hunt, then the "nannies"who have remained to protect the cubs. The hunters eat at the kill & then when they return to the cubs/nannies regurgitate food for them, this is encouraged by the submissive behaviour of licking the older wolves lips by the younger ones(a behaviour sometimes seen between domestic dogs & also with dogs & humans)

You cannot compare Big Cat behaviour & Canine behaviour, they are totally different species. A pride of lions can consist of only females for a while or a male & the females(who are usually sisters or sisters & mother)The male is unrelated & can be replaced by a stronger male, who will kill any young cubs in the pride to ensure that his genes are past on(although of course the lion doesn't know this-it is instinct)
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Trouble
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01-08-2009, 08:48 AM
Ok well why ask the question and then use it as an excuse to just further the anti mobs point of view? I gave you my answer early on how I train my dogs and the brilliant results I have achieved with all of them. Yes I expect them to do as they're told, shock horror. What's the point of training otherwise. Oh my poor poor dogs learning to respond to commands instantly, how sad they must be. Oh and because I choose to run/ jog and jump around with my dogs rather than waddle around is just another form of abuse. Obviously I can't possibly allow them to have fun can I, those poor abused creatures clearly never get the time to sniff and chase and amble about do they. Why do you seem to find it so difficult to accept some of us who like him actually get great rusults and yet we may use methods that differ from your own. I don't feel the need to tell you the way you choose to live with and train your dogs is wrong so what exactly makes you feel you should take the mickey out the way I am with mine. As for being a tv evangelist, I haven't seen the program in years, I'm too busy out abusing my dogs for hours on end. Not that the dogs see it that way but whatever I say you all know best as per usual. Oh and for the record I didn't offer advice I simply said what I do. I really should know better than to entertain you lot by now though shouldn't I?
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JuniorDaddy
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01-08-2009, 08:50 AM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs View Post
im confussed if you follow cms methods(as you say you do),you would be 'pack leader' and your dog would come back to you(ie recall)also,why have a dog for 9years ,of a breed that is off lead everywhere i look,and not have trained one of the most usefull(and first imho)'command' that could actually save their lives? what has cm actually taught you?(its an honest question,and dont mean to cause offence)
No offence taken!

I can assure you its not for want of trying! They do come back if I really lower my voice & shout, I would just like them to come back before this!

CM has taught me how to walk them so they don't pull, stop them barging at the door when someone comes, stop them barking out the window & generally be better mannered.

In response to everyone who has asked how CM would train recall, I already said I can't answer as I don't recall seeing an episode that deals with it.
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Mahooli
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01-08-2009, 08:52 AM
What some of us find unbelievable is that some of you think that kicking, jabbing, pining down, smacking, hitting, the use of shock collars, prong collars, pain causing collars or indeed any method that inflicts pain and fear on a dog is an acceptable method of training.
That I find totally baffling.
Becky
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