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Hannah
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24-01-2007, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by IanTaylor View Post
It's not actually stealing/looting, it's salvage. As Stormy says, as long as they sign for what they take they are not breaking any laws. Apparently the owners have a year to reclaim it and must pay a salvage reward otherwize the "salvagers" are entitled to keep the goods. Not saying it's right morally.. but legally it's perfectly ok.
As they are already selling what they took on ebay they are breaking the law!!!!!

Originally Posted by IanTaylor View Post


Best of luck to em I say. The insurance companies will pay out so if Joe Blogs (or rather John Smith from Highstreet ) doesn't get it then the big salvage companies will.
And what about the people who were emigrating and their whole lives possesions were on those containers and they have had to watch on the news as people rifel through theyre personal possesions and steal irreplacable(sp) family heirlooms im sure getting an insurance pay out wont make things beter for them!
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IanTaylor
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24-01-2007, 04:33 PM
Don't have a go at me I'm just pointing out the rights and wrongs legally... I haven't taken anything.... honest

Those who are already selling stuff are breaking the law, no question about it.. but those who are doing it within the law are no diff from the large salvage companies who will move in and do the same job... the people who have lost family belongings etc will have to pay to get them back whether it's from an individual or a company. Perhaps their insurance will cover that cost, I dunno. I was simply pointing out that it is not, in the eyes of the law, looting or stealing
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Fudgeley
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24-01-2007, 04:52 PM
So if you have a car accident and have to leave your car does the same law apply. Could the salvagers empty your car of possessions leaving you a note to say they have it?

Not doubting the legality of the situation, just the morality...
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IanTaylor
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24-01-2007, 05:14 PM
Whoever clears the stuff from the beach is gonna make money out of doing so. Either the local authorities, the big salvage companies... or Joe Blogs ... I personally see no difference in the morals of any one of these groups. Provided they do it legally who am I to question their morals... I simply think it's wong to call people Theives and looters when they are in fact neither of the two
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Stormey
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24-01-2007, 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by IanTaylor View Post
Whoever clears the stuff from the beach is gonna make money out of doing so. Either the local authorities, the big salvage companies... or Joe Blogs ... I personally see no difference in the morals of any one of these groups. Provided they do it legally who am I to question their morals... I simply think it's wong to call people Theives and looters when they are in fact neither of the two
Well said,
with regards to if it was a car left after an accident, i think the laws only cover maritime salvage, but dont quote me on that.
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ozmutt
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25-01-2007, 04:17 AM
We saw the images in Australia - people just racking off with stuff that didn't belong to them.

Of course there's always going to be people like that.

We very rarely have ship wrecks, but there are truck wrecks.

You should see how many people come out!

Especially if it is a beer truck - or at the moment, if it is a banana truck! (We are used to having bananas - the cyclone damaged most of the crop).

No real excuses though - if it isn't yours - leave it for those who'se it is.
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Hannah
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25-01-2007, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by ozmutt View Post
We saw the images in Australia - people just racking off with stuff that didn't belong to them.

Of course there's always going to be people like that.

We very rarely have ship wrecks, but there are truck wrecks.

You should see how many people come out!

Especially if it is a beer truck - or at the moment, if it is a banana truck! (We are used to having bananas - the cyclone damaged most of the crop).

No real excuses though - if it isn't yours - leave it for those who'se it is.
Well said, most of the people who have taken stuff have no intentions of offering it back to its rightful owners they havent come from all around the country just for a small salvage charge! The main problem I have with it is the increased damage to the environment purely so these people can make abit of extra money out of other peoples suffering!
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Stormey
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25-01-2007, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
Well said, most of the people who have taken stuff have no intentions of offering it back to its rightful owners they havent come from all around the country just for a small salvage charge!
Fair point but most companys will not be fussed about losing puppy food or nappies, So these people probably knew this and took the risk. And the company who want to reclaim the things such as bikes the charge will be anything but small. I do thing the people who are taking the belongings of people moving are just the lowest of the low and that i would class as theft.
Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
The main problem I have with it is the increased damage to the environment purely so these people can make abit of extra money out of other peoples suffering!
Yeah it is a worry, thats why i suggested making the people who go to scavange clean the area and wildlife for a time before being allowed to, this imo would sort out the people who just after a few "bits" and the ones who are just take take take. Therefore easing the load so the pros can help stop the vessel leaking
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IanTaylor
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25-01-2007, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
Well said, most of the people who have taken stuff have no intentions of offering it back to its rightful owners they havent come from all around the country just for a small salvage charge! The main problem I have with it is the increased damage to the environment purely so these people can make abit of extra money out of other peoples suffering!
I can't see how they have incresed the damage? The damage was surely done when the stuff came off the ship? And making money out of other peoples suffering is how many people make a living... should we question the morals of everyone.... Vets, Doctors, surgeons, firemen, undertakers..... the list goes on and on... without someone suffering, none of these people would have jobs

As stated earlier, these people are doing the same thing as what the large salvage companies do (and doing so legally)... and if someone didn't clean up... then you would have even more cause to worry about the environment issue.
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Nippy
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25-01-2007, 12:15 PM
I think one point is Ian, the scavengers are pulling all containers apart and leaving all the debris strewn over the beach, which the wild life are eating and getting tangled in, instead of a clean removal which is what the professional salvagers would have done.
Making money out of goods being shipped around the world is a little differant from breaking open containers of household goods and possessions of people shipping it to their new homes abroad. This what was happening as they giggled their way through other peoples possessions. This behaviour was dispicable in anyones books surely
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