Goes to prove my point doesn't it? In that dogs that are prone to the disease are likely to have similar DNA and it also states 'primarily a disease of purebreds'

The disease is not overly common in either springers or collies, they both rank quite low (according to the American stats albeit)

HD is very common in collies

You got any British stats on that, I would all like to see some, the only stats I have found so far are American (http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html) and they don't come high on that list at all, even in their size category.

On a side note, Britain should produce more data, it seems somewhat lacking.

Theres a list of How many breeds in the UK are scored & BCs are scored , You wil find for a smaller lighter athletic dog its shocking

mean scores list

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/document...ip_2010(1).pdf

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/document...ip_2010(1).pdf

This is the BVA stats and current mean scores - found it straight off.

Also a site for BC's this relys on Owners actually having the tests done.

http://www.bordercolliehealth.com/

I was suggesting that you ignored my point with regards to My BCx bitch who has a twisted spine, which did not show up issues till she was 8 years old, but is something she was born with. Having her hip scored would have shown this to be an issue, as the problem is with her Lumbosacral joint.

Not according the BVA stats; their mean scores are average rather than low (BC = 13, Springer = 14). If you compare those scores to that of the Labradors (who scored 15), a breed considered by many to be genetically prone to various joint issues, I would hardly classify Collies and Springers as a joint-healthy breed.

& if you consider alot of the bad plates dont even get sent off!......

13/14 seems quite low on a list of those scores. A Retriever scores 19, German Shepard 19 and these are all breeds with over 1000 tested. Those breeds with less than 100 tested some of the terriers score 19 (not a fair sample, but that can go either way)

Well that's likely to apply to all dogs, and more likely the ones prone to it who score highly with a low sample.

Just a quick look over the stats but most breeds seem to score from 10 to 13, and as I say, the Collie is one of the most tested, and the Spaniel is in a higher category of testing, I would say they are low on that list, compared to dogs of their size.

An x-ray would have shown a twisted spine, but hip testing her parents wouldn't have prevented her from having this problem, as it seems you are saying it's a birth defect as opposed to a genetic flaw.

Incidently, if it didn't alter her gait, use of her spine and she was in no pain then a vet may well not have spotted it, as you didn't. These things happen, you could test a dog for everything that it could possibly have, but nobody does (as you didn't, not a criticism btw, it seems you had no cause to suspect any illness)

We do not know if it is a birth defect of a genetic fault.

Hip testing her parents may have show if one of the other had any similar issues.
My point was just that - this is an issue that Tassle has always had - until she was 8 it did not cause her (to my knowledge) any pain (although she has always had issues with personal space and other dogs so maybe it did) - If I was looking to breed from her and had her hip scored, this would have shown up as a deformity (potentially one she could pass on) - and potentially something that would (and did) cause her issues when she was older - it would have prevented me breeding from her.

I had no reason to suspect anything wrong with Tass - but then I was not breeding from her - I have no reason to suspect anything with Siren - but I am going to be careful to make sure - and that is what it comes down to - you can stick any old dogs together and hope...but if you go into it with eyes open you are a darn sight more likely to end up with sound puppies.

Anyway - as I said - whats done is done....

BTW....of the dogs we have had - it was one of the cross breeds that had HD...a spaniel x to be exact! Luckily she did lots of swimming so her muscle tone was able to allowed her a relatively pain free life.