Training a Sit Stay?

We have just had our assessment at training, and the only thing we failed on was a "sit stay".

Max understands "stay" fine, and he understands "sit" also, and can do these independently of each other.

As part of our assessment, we had to do a "sit stay" and a "down stay".

Max happily did a down stay for 2.5 minutes, biut as soon as I put him in a sit stay, he lies down (for information, we did the sit stay first).

I just can't get him to keep sat up. He will do it for 30 seconds or so, but will just lie down for any longer than that.

I've tried going back to basics, and starting from a few seconds and building it up, but as soon as we hit approx 30 seconds, he just lies down.

One of the trainers suggested using a blanket or piece of carpet to train on specifically, but I think this would just confuse Max; as we train at home on grass, sand, tiles or carpet; and at class on a wood floor.

I'm not sure if he isn't comfy sitting for a long period of time, as he is all elbows and joints, without much fat on him (see pictures in my recent threads).

Any tips for teaching this, as its the only thing preventing us from moving up a class and I'm flummoxed as to why he won't do it in a sit, when he'll quite happily stay in a down for 3 or 4 minutes.

hi hun i now how you feel i am having a bit of trouble with this, when you are doing it are still with the dog or are you away from the dog. i have now got trigger to do a 1min stay with me stood be side him as soon as he went to go in a down i lift his lead up and say sit so he cant go down, we are working on it and he is getting it lots of treats and praise as well so he nows what i want him to do. we are also having to start with me being 10 paces away as well for our silver course. sorry if not much help but good luck

I once had a friend who was explaining this problem to me, and she was told by a trainer to place something in between his front legs when he sat, so that he could not lie down. Obviously the object could not be nice or interesting, just something that you introduce him to, so the interest is gone and then put it down.

With my dogs I also train 'Up' and 'Stand', so they know when they are led down, Up means sit up and stand means get up (you lazy sod, you're in the doorway):smt042

I trained the 'Up' by making him sit, then lie down, then gently tapping my toe justs under the front of his chest, so their reaction is to sit up, and then treated him. You could try it that way, so when he lies down, you tap him, and when he gets up repeat the stay command.

Just an idea

Hello!
I have ofund it easier to differentiate the commands...so we have a sit..wait and a down stay.
I train a sit wait form the minute we get a pup. They have to sit, then wait until they can eat their food, so a wait command is constantly being reinforced.
I then get them used to sitting in front of me, rather than at the side. As they get better I take step back with my hand in a 'stoooooooooop' sort of gesture and very firmly say 'wait' thenI step forward again immediately and reward them. IF they stand up, we go back to square one. I slowly extend the distance, making sure they are achieving well at each stage beofre I progress with them.
I reinforce it on lead walks and will often get the dog to sit then give a wait command and walk round them.
I think the difference for my lot between a 'wait' and a 'stay' is that they know when they are in a 'wait' they are not going to be in it for as long and therefore they have to stay more focused on me and what I'm doing, which is helpful as they are more alert and so they don't ever feel the urge to lie down, as they are watching me all the time to find out what things we are going to do next. In a down on the other hand, they know they may be there for a bit longer, so they chill out more and have a nose around.
Hope this helps.

Do you use hand signals with your cues?
Takara's sit signal is my index finger pointing upwards (palm towards her), her 'flat' signal is my index finger pointing downwards and 'wait' is my hand out in front of me, palm facing her.

If I tell she is about to move or lay down from a sit stay, I just change my hand from my 'wait' signal to my 'sit' signal which reminds her she's got to be sitting and then once I think she's back on track she gets the wait hand signal again.

Also, try anticipating when he will lay down and go to him just at that point to reward him, then you could move onto saying 'sit' again as you anticipate he's about to lay down.

Good luck!

For what it's worth, I taught Blondi progressively. Armed with a stopwatch, I would stand right by her side, with her on leash. She would then be expected to sit at my side for three minutes. (I would treat her at each one minute interval, but very low key so as not to get her excited.) I did that twice or three times a day. The leash was important as, if she went to lay down, I could prevent her from doing so.

We continued doing this, increasing the time each couple of days, until fifteen minutes became an absolute breeze.

Then, once that was easy, I started moving away, a pace first, then again increasing the distance. If she went to lay down, I just had to step forward and gently lift her with the leash.

I can now confidently ask her to sit anywhere and know that she won't move until she receives a "break" command, or she sees my arm go up, as though I am asking teacher if I can go to the toilet.

I also felt it was good because I was not asking her to do something that I myself didn't also have to do with her. Standing there for fifteen minutes at a time can get quite boring!