You are becoming increasingly antagonistic are you not? I do hope you are following the forum rules and guidelines on etiquette

I was watching a Youtube video once of a previously dog aggressive GSD, who would attack other dogs on sight, now "rehabilitated" using the collar. The owner and trainer took the dog to a popular dog walking area and let him go. He beelined another dog straight away, ran after him, they zapped him, and he immediately turned tail and returned to the owner. However, his body language was anything but happy and relaxed. His ears were slanted at a side angle, not held up erect as is usual with the breed. He sat by the owners leg and did not move another muscle. He looked tense and uncomfortable but unable to exhibit those feelings naturally. All the time his owner and trainer are saying how amazing the training has been, what a wonderful "new" dog they have etc etc. But what has the collar actually taught the GSD? Other then "you go near that dog I'll zap you for reasons you don't understand". The underlying behaviour is still there. That dog is still not comfortable around other dogs. He will most likely have to wear the collar for the rest of his days because no other training is in place to teach him dogs are not a problem. An e-collar is a training aid, and like so many other aids, owners tend to get lazy and just keep on using them for extended periods of time. But while they correct an undesired behaviour immediately, they don't fix the underlying problem and therefore the behaviour remains.

that's great Julie, but Mollie is not Ben. One of the things I dislike about CM is that he tends to treat all dogs as having the same problem - dominance - and it just is not true.

All dogs are different - Ben couldn't care less what other dogs do, he is his own man. Treats hold little interest for him on a consistent basis.

Yet in a previous post yup stated you could / would not afford a behaviourist.

I'm beginning to wonder if your continual contradiction of yourself and your changing of your story all the time is just one big wind up.

If you didn't have such a high post count I'd be reporting you to mods as a forum troll!

But this is not why we used the e collar to train Ben!!

We used the e collar to train a RECALL - absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he is DA. We are now starting to work on that - without using the e collar, for the very reasons you mention here. They simply do not work to cure a dog of DA.

Another lack of understanding, the only way you can teach an aggressive dog not to be aggressive is to keep them calm, when they are kicking off their brain has shut down apart from the part involved with the kicking off. No matter what you do then it won't get into his brain and he won't learn anything apart from kicking off works.

I have been like that all my life, doesn't mean I can understand a dog and how they tick, it just means that dogs don't see me as a threat.

Why should we listen to you when you keep telling us that you are not listening to us. The way you have attacked things that were supposed to be in my posts that weren't there shows just how little you read our posts.

WHAT!! I am at work here playing hookey - I don't have time for this, it is just that I am an argumentative madam and will not let go!!

I am not contradicting myself - I did not say I could not afford a behaviourist - I said that the 3 behaviourists/trainers whatever you want to call them cost us a lot of money - around £200 from memory. That is a lot of money to me. What was the point of carrying on when clearly nothing was working.

I am NOT a troll ... HOW VERY DARE YOU !!!!

I don't insinuate, I mean what I so I means ME and nobody else.

Maybe if you stopped reading into posts that are not there it may help.

Sorry, I still don't get it, typicall insurance excess is about £75 which is all it would cost you. Typically a behavioural consultation comes in around £150, but you use trainers instead.