Well, if I do take this route, I will try the veg, but if it puts him off, it'll be a tub of vitamins for him. He gets a tin of pilchards every now and again, about twice a week as a meal, and I'd probably start feeding that Viacutan again which has all of the essential oils they need. I'm quite looking forward to giving this a try, so thanks for all the help.

Helena54: One of the major parts of the BARF diet is that the dog has raw veg as well as raw meat and bones. You cannot just feed raw meat and bones - if you do so, then I strongly recommend you buy Billinghurst's book and he will explain why. But basically, the reason is this. When wolves make a kill, that kill is going to be a herbivore, with a stomach full of semi and fully digested plant matter. This is like caviar to wolves, they know that they need the minerals and vitamins found in these conveniently digested plants. This system has evolved over millions of years and works for wolves, dogs are directly descended from wolves and have now been reclassified as the same species. Therefore, it is logical that we should feed our dogs on the natural wolf diet. Wolves and dogs do not produce the enzyme cellulase, the enzyme herbivores need to digest cellulose in plants, therefore wolves and dogs can't just be fed portions of raw broccoli or sprouts, because they won't be able to digest them, but when they eat those same plants that have been conveniently digested in a nice plump snowshoe hare's stomach, then that is great.

This is the BARF diet. You must feed raw vegetables that preferably have been smashed up in a smoothie maker, which is the closest we can get to predigested vegetables from a herbivore's stomach. You cannot be anthropomorphic about this, if your dog doesn't like vegetables, tough, he has got to eat them, just like your mum made you eat your vegetables - because they are good for you. A dessertspoonful of pureed veg is not a lot, and the taste can be disguised with gravy, a tiny bit of cooked meat, chicken stock, whatever it takes to get the dog to eat the food.

Billinghurst emphases in his book you must follow the diet correctly. If you don't think you can, then don't, feed kibble, but if you love your dog, you should want to do the best for him. Giving a vitamin pill is NOT the same thing - if it were, then doctors would tell us we don't need to eat 5 a day, just take a multi vitamin.

Oooer - my post sounds so harsh, I didn't mean it to be Helena, I'm so sorry, I hope I haven't offended you! The trouble is I am a very fast typist, and I get carried away and forget my manners sometimes.

Lol, not at all, it made me laugh in places quite honestly!!!!! It made very, very interesting reading too! So I will do what my mum made me do then and mash them up in the liquidiser just like you're telling me to! Lol! I see your point though, and thanks for putting it all out in good old layman's terms for the likes of me!!!

Gnasher I have the same problem....lol

I agree whoeheartedly. The BARF diet is a all or nothing in terms of health for a dog. People that do half and half wonder why they never see any difference in their dogs and this is the reason.

I cannot stand meat, I rarely eat it and dont enjoy it, but I will happily grab my cleaver for a pigs head for them

As Gnasher said the veg cannot be digested well enough, as a dogs digestive juices cannot break down the cell walls of veg, which is where the liquidiser comes in handy

I'm sure if I put extra carrots in the liquidiser it'll all go down smoothly coz he loves his raw carrots, BUT, just one more question please. Do you have to chop and change the veggies like we do for ourselves, or can you use the same veg each day, and how many veg varieties a time? That's it! No more questions, I think I've got the gist of this then, but I might invest in that book if I'm going to take this seriously and convert!

Do the same that you would do for yourself. SO if you have 5 diffrent types, you do them the same. Liquidise a load in bulk and freeze in an ice cube tray. Each cube is roughly the amount they need daily, so just defrost one cube per day to feed to them. A variety is better as it keeps them interested and givesthem different vits from different veg. But you can feed the same batch for a week, then a new batch for the next etc and vary it that way.

Helena don't bother buying cow bones, just go to your local abattoir and get horse bones.

Normally you can get given them for free.

Forgot to mention that none of my lot are given any veg. If it hasn't ran or swam then they don't eat it.

I have to say I don't subscribe to the Billinghurst theory about the dog needing veggies. I've never fed them and never will (unless they're leftover, which with my Dad in the house, is never! ). I think the latest research I read said that wild carnivores will leave the guts (containing the veg matter) of their prey, only to be eaten if the animal is absolutely starving.

I know when my cat kills voles, mice etc she will always leave the guts and eat the rest of the animal (although I am aware felines and canines are very different, just an example)!

How do I know this? Cos my brother regularly steps in them on his way to the toilet in the middle of the night!:smt078

Well I'm sick of telling him to keep his bedroom window shut to keep the cat (and the other animals guts) out!

Not saying you shouldn't feed veggies H, but just that the rule isn't set in stone, more personal choice.

I agree, there are many variations of raw feeding. I just feel personally it benefits them with extra vitamins etc that they dont get from just meat and bones and it helps their digestive system, but that's me personally