A few years ago, I did a 20 hour observation over 5 days of a captive wolf pack. Interestingly, the male leader, took every piece of food thrown over the fence then took it back to distribute it amongst the other wolves.

A friend observed a different captive wolf pack in another part of the country. The male there took the food and guarded it, fighting off any other wolf who came within yards of it until he had had his fill.

Captive wolf packs behave differently dependent on the mix of the group, the environment and many other factors. Observations of such a pack should never be used as a model for how wolves behave in the wild or, indeed, how another group of wolves live and behave.

Exactly my point.

The Ellesmere Island wolves were effectively a captive pack.

I imagine it is virtually impossible to observe a wild wolf group as they range quite a way and would be very difficult to both track and keep in view.

It is totally academic as far as dog behaviour is concerned as, of course, dogs are not wolves and wolves are not dogs.

The best way to see how dogs behave is to observe dogs.

Observations of dogs of many breeds show that their hierarchy is fluid and based more on need/want than rank. One dog may take the lead where toys are involved while another may take the lead where food is concerned (just an example).

Where humans and dogs are concerned, there really isn't any hierarchy contest. Some dogs try their luck more than others (push boundaries), but consistency and guiding them into behaviour that is acceptable to us (and that changes from owner to owner) wins out in the end without ever having to keep them off the furniture, eat before them or ignore them for hours on end

He has admitted he was wrong, it was him who started this pack, alpha theory and the more he studied wolves the more he realised he got it wrong at the beginning.

A pack is mum, dad and offspring, mum and dad are the parents who teach the offspring how to survive, a pack has nothing to do with a dog coming into our homes to live with us, we are not dogs and dogs are not stupid enough to think that so we can't be pack leaders or alphas

We hold all the resources, food, exercise, rest etc. we don't need to prove that we are the teacher/parent, how we handle this does make a difference. Many owners, especially of small dogs, don't bother to teach their dogs what is needed of them, but those taught with kindness, firmness consistancy, and encouragement make a lot better pets than those that have had harsh methods or been punished.

Wolves are not dogs, they are very sensitive and easily upset, like all animals and children the more sensitive they are the more careful we have to be when dealing with them.

The principles of training is the same no matter what you are teaching, we do have to take into account the species we are teaching and how they learn, but all animals as well as humans learn a lot better with positive training methods. I moved my children away from one school to another because of the way the teachers treated the children, my middle son is very sensitive and their methods had a terrible effect on him to the extent when he was 9 years old he thought life wasn't worth living. My other 2 sons didn't like the methods but they were able to cope a lot better. In the new school my middle son changed completely because positive methods was used, good was rewarded and the reward suited the child.

Oh that is utter nonsense. What a ridiculous comment, are you serious - an electric shock applied to the neck is not a punishment, what on earth are you on. Do you know anything about behavioural theory at all....actually it's clear you don't as your about to engage in a set up with a black Labrador that will clearly take your dog over threshold...and your management technique is to physically block a dog you have already stated can't be.

I really think you are taking the Mickey now

But thats exactly the point...........he DOESN'T see you as a successful, competent leader! If he did, you wouldn't have ANY issues with him; he wouldn't have the "red mist" descend, because he would trust in YOU to take over the situation and deal with it on his behalf.
Anyway, enough about that, the theory of dominance is debunked.........end of.
On the matter of the BL training, sadly, yet again, you are setting your dog up for failure, and putting another dog as well as your own at risk of being bitten

I think you described the Black Lab you intend rto work with on Ben's issues, as a "dominant, entire, male" didn't you, Gnasher? He's also quite defensive and "gobby", right?

Totally the wrong dog to use! When working with stooge dogs there is a very good reason the stooge dog is usually calm and totally focused to their owner/handler. Using an equally reactive dog is going to teach Ben nothing, and in turn make the Black Lab's issues doubly more problematic too.

Your best bet would be contacting a trainer and organizing some kind of meet up through them. My boy is black and was asked once during training classes to act as a stooge for a dog who also had issues with black Lab types. It's actually pretty common and I'm sure any trainer you'd contact would be able to help advise you on the situation.

I think all this is falling on deaf ears especially if electric shocks are not being seen as punishments, what we have is people who have dogs they cannot control using extraordinary measures to try and pretend they can. Not just Gnashers this is all people who use electric collars.

If we all chose breeds we could cope with this situation would not be happening I guess it must be some sort of challenge to own a dog you cannot control perhaps that is the reason they do it like the people who own snakes they are afraid of it's the fear they enjoy !

Personally I will never understand it I choose dogs I can easily hold if they decide the dog down the road needs to die and am quite proud I can absolutely keep every dog and human safe under any circumstance. My pleasure in owning a dog is the companionship and laughs we have together not the danger it offers.

My husband is a retired medical scientist, and his view is that a kosher scientist would NEVER EVER have made such a massive error in the first place.

To now claim that dogs and wolves are not "pack" animals is as ridiculous as saying the earth is falt.

That's your opinion Julie, to which you are entitled, but you had better tell Ben that we cannot cope with him because he is currently labouring under the misapprehension that we are in control, he is happy to be in that position and harmony reigns supreme in our pack!