Mutual respect should always be good enough, which is why those like Millan are dangerous. Confrontational training is always bad news no matter how skilled those who apply it. When you get someone advocating this type of training internationally on the most popular media, it's more than bad news, it's a tragedy

You are looking at `breaking` a dog not training a dog. It is a mind-set that is very old-fashioned and tbh rather silly because it says more about the inadequacies of the trainer than the dog.
I could, if I were that sort of person, force any animal to do what I wanted. But what is the point? It doesn`t train the dog.
I find it rather sad when guys admire macho posturing as shown on this TV programme because it is based on pseudo-science which has long been disproved.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. I watched that clip and ok it might be unprofessional of Cesar to have laughed but I do not think it is that big a deal. He is after all going to rehabilitate the dog. The only way to correct inappropriate behaviour is to correct them in the act. How can you tell a dog that attacking another dog or person is not acceptable, if you do not correct them at the moment it occurs? Cesar had to provoke an attack in order to correct it. That is using techniques dogs use.

Our second dog likes to chase chickens which is very dangerous in Thailand as the Thais would try to kill him if he killed a chicken. However one time he went for some but the local dogs caught him by the back legs and then went in front and forced him away. If he had gone on again he would have been bitten and that is more effective than if we tried to stop him. Cesar would do what a dog would.

I do find it amusing when people, like Ian Dunbar, talk about fighting Cesar! Humans have the ability to rationalize, dogs do not. I can not say to my dog - look, if you chase chickens you might get a machete in the back, or - if you drink that stagnant water you might get sick. But the language that dogs speak among each other is all energy and that is what Cesar replicates. Sometimes that includes physically touching the dogs, as they would.

I do not think it is rational to want to kick a human but if a dog bites it is not ok to finger jab them.

Sadly you have Cesar's Blinkers, you will try, no matter what evidence is presented to you, to justify what he does to dogs. If you think CM does what a dog does then you don't know dogs very well.
Becky

I agree.

How anyone can watch CM and not notice the body language of the dogs he's bullying I don't know. It's certainly not how I want my dog to feel around me.

I quite agree, but what if you do not have mutual respect? What if the dog trusts you and you can pull his tail all day. He loves you but does not fully respect you. If he sees a dog that he wants to attack and he does not fully respect you, he is not going to listen. I am talking off the leash of course. Cesar has complete respect from his own pack of 40 pitbulls and rotts and they love him because they are in a balanced pack where there is no fighting or bullying because he will not allow it. Admittedly his method is not the only way, but he gets respect right away which is what his clients, who are often afraid of their own dogs, want.

We have had indepth dthreads on this in the past if you search
But to address your points there
CM does not string the dog up when he goes for the other dog, the dog is not reacting so CM kicks the dog in the belly and as the dog turns towards him he strings him up - AT THIS POINT the dog starts fighting
and we are shown earlier in the episode that the 'lead' CM is using is actually a noose made from the dogs lead passed tru the handle
So the dog is stressed, he is with a strange person and around a dog he has history with
He is offered no guidance but kicked in the guts and then strangled - wouldnt you fight in that situation?


Plenty trainers rehabilitate dogs as bad or worse than the ones shown here, my dog was worse than shadow - albeit smaller - and I never had to wrestle to stop her biting me
GOOD trainers dont get into a situation where they will get bitten

No its not the only way - its just the only way that CM knows, there are better ways - especially with agression
The dog is not making a choice to be 'bad' it shows a very disturbed mind for a dog to be trying to fight and the mind has to be fixed - CM's method does not address the reason for the problem or make the dog like being in the presences of the other dogs more all he does is makes the dog more scared of CM than anything else so he suprreses all his natural warning and behaviours - if you look at the bodylaungage of shadow later when he is muzzled and pinned to the floor as other dogs are paraded past him he is in NO way happy with the other dogs there - everyone who ever handles him in the future will have to keep on putting the fear of g0d into that poor dog - because if at any times his fear of the other dog becomes greater than his fear of the handler his attack is going to be swift, silent and very sevear
What energy is this? how is it measured?
Humans do not speak dog anyway - and dogs do not speak human - we have to teach them

It is natural for the dog to want to drink the stinky water
it is OUR job as humans to teach them to leave something when we ask them
we can do that with kindness understanding that they are only doing something natural and have no idea we dont want them to
or we can do it with punishments

each work in their own ways - but punishing when they have no understanding of what we want just isnt fair imo

Cesar is not there to train, only to rehabilitate dogs like abandoned fighting pitbulls and ex scrap metal guard dogs who otherwise would have absolutely no future. You can not blame him for agreeing to attempt to help rehabilitate a dog when asked. You can not blame him for agreeing to do a tv show. If you want to blame someone, blame the people who ask him for help. He was a highly specialized dog rehabilitation expert for red zone dogs, maybe 0.1% of dogs, who was asked to go mainstream. He produces excellent results with very shy dogs also.

I use examples to back my opinion. You have not given any examples of dogs correcting one another with out either blocking, growling or biting. I see packs of dogs every day. Packs that usually have no human supervision.