Julie, it is not a case of the dog "no longer doing it's job"
If i use my rescue boy as an example:
He was 12 months old when he got taken into rescue, he had been tried on the sheep at a very young age, and because he had no interest, he was in effect, no use. The farmer was going to shoot him and his brother; they were then shut in a barn. The lovely lady that rescued them had to fight tooth and nail to get these dogs off him, as in his words they were no use to anyone. He was a mess when i adopted him, having been beaten etc etc.
Do you really still feel it is acceptable for these dogs to lose their lives just because they don't do what is expected of them?? Why shouldn't they get the chance of a loving home, or in the case of an older dog that can no longer work, a happy retirement?

I don't think it acceptable that any dog loses it's life if it is healthy but we don't live in Julie world we live in a society that throws dogs away left right and centre, and I see farmers as no different to anyone else who rejects their dog for a variety of reasons.

Still doesn't make it right though does it.Or explain some people's belief that it's equally as kind to shoot a dog as have it PTS in a vets.

A lot of what goes on in the world of dogs isn't right, but that doesn't make a quick bullet less kind than PTS at the vet. Actually calling it PTS makes it sound rather nice having held a struggling animal as it was killed completely panicked because it was at the vets I know a bullet would have been far kinder when the dog was not expecting it.

I think really the point i'm trying to make is that Azz has stated that sheep are a commodity to the farmer, not seen as pets or sentient beings, unlike dogs.
Thats why i mentioned the sheepdogs, also seen by many farmers as a commodity, a tool to do a job with, they are not pets, so does the same rule apply to them? are they still more important because they are dogs? Does it matter less for the sheep to lose their life than it does for the failed sheepdog? IMO there is absolutely no difference at all, and if people are unable to prevent their beloved dog from chasing and/or attacking livestock, then they shouldn't own them in the first place.

I agree there is no difference, Azz has complicated his reasoning by being emotional about dogs above other animals, but our emotions are not what matters in this debate it's about animals and is one species more important than another.

I haven't said they are not sentient beings. Although one could actually argue that dogs experience much more human-like emotions, having lived with us side by side for thousands of years.

See the research as detailed in this thread for more: Dogs Are People, Too?

I don't think I have been emotional - I have just pointed out the relationship between dogs and humans versus sheep and other livestock and humans. The difference is vast.

The struggling animal you held while it was "killed" at the vets.Was it there because it didn't make the grade as a working dog?I doubt it.Thats the situation I object too...shooting a dog because it's not up to a certain standard A healthy dog,that doesn't need to be put out of its misery.That could be re homed and giving a chance.No...just take it it down the field and shoot it,end of story
Since you brought up the topic of having a dog PTS at a vets and your feelings on that,let me just ask you a question.
One of yours has come to the end of its life,is in pain and nothing can be done to help.Would you even consider letting someone shoot it?
On seconds thoughts,I already know the answer,NO,you would not!

I can sort of see the point you were making about the "value" of sheep as compared with the "value" of dogs. If my dog kills a sheep and I offer the farmer £100 (or whatever the sheep is worth) I suspect he/she would accept it, because it covers his/her loss. If however a farmer shot my dog and offered me the value of him it wouldn't come close to my loss. It doesn't make my dog more important an animal than the sheep in the grand scheme of things but relatively speaking my dog is far more valuable.

If everything was equal then we'd eat humans and not worry about it right?

I don't think I have been emotional - I have just pointed out the relationship between dogs and humans versus sheep and other livestock and humans. The difference is vast.[/QUOTE]



Okay Azz, so taking this into consideration, how do you feel about the sheepdogs and how they are seen as a commodity; do you see them that way too? Are their lives any less important than our pampered pets