Not really, I have to go to exeter tomorrow, I could walk or hitch hike or whatever, or I could drive.
I think I will drive

Adam

I am so totaly fed up of people justifying a training method by saying 'if I didnt do it then they would have been put to sleep'

There are many many people who rescue dogs with issues and they take the time and empathy to rehabilitate the dogs fully Unlike a quick fix shock treatment which at best only masks the reaction - it does not cure the mental state
and as we are seeing from Adams videos it also stresses the dog and supresses his natural fun behaviours

Sorry I dont have videos of rehabing an agressive dog - when Mia was in full on reaction I had no thought of filming her, my whole thoughts were how to make life better for her so she didnt have to be like that

here is APBC's video dealing with agression using positive methods - is that quick enough for you adam?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL8drtjcByE

here is a video of mia - I dont often have someone to film so it is not ideal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vlMvz4V9Qs
In the first bit yup I agree I kept the lead too tight but a tight lead she has been trained to turn back to me
he reaction is 100% better than when I first got her -and it was an unexpected GSD that came out of the bushes
The rest of the vid was taken all on the same weekend, I was trying out the control unleashed exercises
and you can see I got her pretty close to ringside at an agility show - and she was totaly calm and happy to be there

A local trainer was doing shock collar demos at a pet expo where my club was doing clicker and agility demos. She was using her 5 month old Jack Russell Terrier (JRT) as the demo dog.
The puppy got out of her crate when this trainer left her booth, and ran loose around the expo. A friend of mine caught the puppy and was carrying it around looking for the trainer. My friend noticed that the puppy shook hard in her arms intermittently. my friend then noticed that when the puppy shook, the red light on her collar was on. The trainer was trying to find her puppy by shocking it as a cue to recall.


The next year, at the same pet expo, we had another shock training demo. after the demo, the trainer was taking his two GSD's outside and the collar broke on one of them. the entire audience saw this happen.
The collar was burning the dog and would not turn off. the dog was screaming at the top of its lungs and bolted for the open exit door. The trainer was shouting at him to SIT! SIT! while he was trying to turn off the collar with his remote, and he couldn’t turn it off. The dog was screaming and running. and the other German Shepherd was in a total panic because he was off leash and was trying to stay in heel position with the trainer who was running after the other dog. This trainer had walked his dogs all around the expo off-leash and would shock them if they got out of position. Finally the trainer caught up to the screaming dog and grabbed the collar and literally ripped it off the dog's neck while continuing to yell SIT!
I realized I was crying and holding my Sheltie/Border collie/Jack Russell Snap, who only weighs 20 pounds, really tight against my chest as if to protect him. and I yelled really loud, "I guess electricity doesn't always work to train dogs! That's a shock!" A bunch of people laughed.
Later I was mortified that I lost it and behaved unprofessionally. But the image of those two Shepherds is burned into my mind, many months later. my heart is beating faster as I relive this, actually.
Leslie McDevitt

Erdenheim PA
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...e&cd=7&hl=en&c t=clnk&gl=uk

''In any doubt e-collars are mental (and physical) abuse?''

Returning to the original post in this thread', I don't think any reasonable caring dog owner/trainer is in any doubt at all that use of e collars can be classed as mental and physical abuse and that their use can't be justified.

I think just about everyone posting here agrees that there are reliable, effective and painless methods which can be used to train dogs instead of these outdated 'quick fix do more harm ' devices.

Virtually all humane aggressive dogs that go into rescue get pts.
Many rescues will pts dog aggressive dogs as well.

Besides I don't use e collars just for last chance dogs, I use them for most dogs as a part of balanced training.

Virtually all humane aggressive dogs that go into rescue get pts.
Many rescues will pts dog aggressive dogs as well. Besides I don't use e collars just for last chance dogs, I use them for most dogs as a part of balanced training.

Adam