I hate the whole concept that has evolved out of the words alpha and beta. It's been applied in silly situations that aren't just about dogs. There is something of an order to things. I do decide everyone's manners and the rules. I decide who gets what food. I take anything I want to take. I have personal boundaries and manners to use around me. Do I act aggressive, dominate without question, do the always popular alpha roll, and control every part of my dogs lives? No. I simply hold my own ground and place. Everyone has their defined place. Except maybe the shiba who just lacks any "presence" behind her threats to the others so even as a puppy the very reserved and what would be considered submissive husky didn't listen. The shiba isn't entirely part of the pack and kind of seems to speak a different language. The akita and I developed our language and communicate it to the others who copy and through that the rules that keep the pack peaceful get passed on with everyone deciding what they want to allow and don't want to allow from a particular individual within reason. I step in if someone is apply excessive force that might injure another. Bite inhibition and levels of response are heavily stressed. It is interesting how our pack structure has evolved over time.

I have a feeling though that the newest one is going to smash the whole system to pieces and I will have to rebuild it. She is a stick of dynamite in a cute puppy package. She fears nothing, she gives in to nothing, she challenges everything, she couldn't care less about manners and our rules... I have worked with a lot of spitz/primitive breeds including fosters and I have not run into this strong of personality.

I am not the alpha male - I'm their owner and they know I am in charge. Or at least I try to be��

Dogs are dogs - they know I am not a dog, so why would they think I was the alpha male? It is my responsibility to see that they behave and are not a nuisance to me or anyone else. I also feed them before I eat and let them sleep on the bed. They are not constantly trying to dominate me or each other, and are pretty much relaxed and chilled out.

That "pack leader" stuff is just messed up. Dogs know we aren't dogs. Dogs need leadership, but not that alpha/pack leader mumbo jumbo.

Dogs, and wolves, do not have an alpha male. Wolves have a family structure, which appears usually to be lead by a pair of wolves, usually the parent wolves. Dogs have been in cooperative relationships with humans for a long time and I feel the best way to raise a dog is to lead them in a calm, respectful way while also giving them the freedom to make some of their own choices.

This thread is terribly long so I'm not reading the whole thing, but...

I don't use the term "alpha" in a serious context and I never will, because of all the Cesar Millan nonsense that's made the rounds. I do think we need to set boundaries and provide guidance to our pets, but we are a different species and we can not "dominate" them by force, nor should we try.

I agree. I don't know about other people's relationship with their dogs. Many/most I encounter are on leads so I think the relationship is less than secure or trusting.

Yes, we are a different species. I don't know what goes on in my dog's brain or how he works things out - but he does. He knows when he will go out with us and when he is not invited. Which isn't often I might add. But there are times.

I do believe.he would walk to the end of the earth with me.
But that I put down to loyalty, not me being alpha male. It's a relationship many of us doggy folks have and something you couldn't buy.

To be honest, I've become very confused about the term in recent years. The way I understand it, such as it was understood when it was still considered a valid scientific concept, the 'alpha' in a canine pack was really more equivalent to the paterfamilias. Yes, they would eat first, but equally it was their responsibility to make sure enough prey was taken for everyone to eat their fill, since the whole point was that a good alpha gave their pack (usually made up of their offspring) a better chance at survival.

This is very similar to how my family thought about the family dogs when I was growing up. The dog should always be the 'lowest' member on the family totem pole, even below the cats, for the sake of everyone's comfort and safety, but they should still be treated with respect and kindness (as should any living creature), and that the human family members were responsible for their well-being and had to take that responsibility very seriously (everything from making sure they had good nutrition and healthcare, to providing them with nice things and pleasant experiences in their lives). They were 100% family members and loved as such, and I've honestly never seen any contradiction in those two ideas.

I think the problem these days is that the word 'alpha' has been co-opted to mean 'aggressive self-centred a-hole', which IMO it was never intended to.

Can't believe this thread is still running. It started in 2009.

Besoeker said
"I do believe.he would walk to the end of the earth with me.
But that I put down to loyalty, not me being alpha male. It's a relationship many of us doggy folks have and something you couldn't buy"

Well said Besoeker.