What are we doing wrong?(Housebreaking/updated @ post no 12)

When Amber came to us, aged 10 weeks, she was virtually house-trained. She rarely had an accident, which improved even more when we installed a dogflap and was able to manage the whole night without wanting to be let out.

Two weeks later, we took on Sam for my mum, who is unable to have him at the moment. Sam is eighteen months old and fully house trained, but for a few days, both dogs began toileting in the house. It was frustrating, but we accepted that there had been a lot of turmoil, and it was just one of those things. A fortnight later, Sam has gone back to his usual good routines, but Amber is STILL persisting in toileting wherever she likes. Mostly, this occurs on our dining room carpet (a room she has to cross to go through the kitchen to the backdoor), and RIGHT IN FRONT of the dog flap. She has demonstrated that she knows how to use the door, and that toileting outside is a positive thing with positive reinforcement. On the few occasions that we have caught her in the act, we have put her outside and praised her when she has finished her business in the correct place.

However, we are often not catching her doing this, so we feel a bit stuck. We always praise her when we see her going to the toilet outside, but obviously if we don't catch her in the act indoors, there's nothing we can do about it. She does still use the dogflap, and I do see her toileting outside (and go and praise her for it), but we cannot understand why
a) she clearly knows the toilet is outside and is still regularly going indoors, and
b) why it is often happening by the flap - is she simply on her way outside and being caught short?

What else can we do? We use a good cleaner with no ammonia, and my partner is getting incredibly frustrated. Why was her toileting so good before, and now going backwards?

Sounds like she has just forgotten what to do. I would start at the beginning with her again, taking her outside every couple of hours, after food and after play, using the key word when she does perform, and making no fuss at all about 'accidents'. If she gets more attention for being a 'good clean dog' than she does when she 'forgets' she will soon get into a better habit again.

Hi Sez I agree with Mags, you need to go back to square one/take Amber out/stay with her/praise her when she eliminates.

I have a dog door but it remains closed for now, it would be much more convenient for me to open it and let Millie go out when she wants to but until I am happy she is 99.9% house trained I won't use it. I need to go out with her to reinforce over and over again in her mind that going out to relieve herself is the thing to do


Think of it as a 'bank' ,each time you go out with a puppy and reinforce when it relieves itself in the correct place you are storing up a credit of wanted behaviour, after a while there will be enough credit stored to last a life time

Thanks for this.
It's been a difficult couple of weeks. My OH has just recently quit smoking, so he is a bomb waiting to explode anyway. I'm practically useless with back pain, so my long-suffering OH has been looking after the dogs and travelling to the stables twice a day to see to my horse (not forgetting the amount of time he spends helping me as well). He took the dogs outside after breakfast (their second toilet break of the day, as they always go out as soon as we get up), and half an hour later found that despite already having done "the full works", Amber had wee'd and pooped by the dogflap.
I think it is just all trying his patience.

We shall try your suggestions and close the dogflap by day (Sam has always let himself out during the night, and I don't want for HIM to start having accidents because he can't go!) and let the dogs out ourselves regularly. Once she can be trusted again, we will re-introduce the idea of the flap.

It's such a shame - she was doing so well, and uses the flap even when she doesn't need to go, just to go outside and sniff around. I sometimes think that now she has another dog to play with, like a small child with a distraction, she doesn't realise she has to go, and then by the time she suddenly has to go NOW, she just can't make it out of the flap.

one thing we made a mistake of on housebreaking was using newspaper - just confused the dog - i just let them out as often as possible

since been housetrained - millie has only ever had one wee in the house and that was because she was ill


good luck!

When I first got Willow I followed a lot of the advice on Dogsey.

One of the things I was doing wrong was leaving the back door open rather than trying to encourage her to 'keep it in' until she is outside to release. Someone pointed out that this wasn't the best way and since then it all worked out really well and she was fully trained at 6 months.

One other thing you could try. You say you can't catch her in the act in the house. It might seem a bit of a pain, but I made sure that Willow and I, or OH, were in the same room always so that I could catch her in time, or act quickly if there as an accident. Its only for a short time and pays off in the long run. Good luck.

Icon was fully trained until about a week ago when he has started to go inside the house again, I am just taking him out more regularly now, I have to go out with him anyway as there is currently a gap in the fence and I have to walk him out on a lead, which is a good thing, because when its freezing and pouring down with rain and I'm in my pj's, I have no choice whether to go out with him or not, so there is no temptation to neglect standing by him when he goes "hurry up" in the correct place!

So in the same boat, so frustrating, but we'll get there eh?

Hope you're feeling better soon xxx

Hi,,, you mention you got her at 10 weeks old,,can you tell me how old she is now?
I would guess that when the other dog came it was down to marking territory, this may have continued for a few reason,,,one may be she is due a season {dont know if she has been spayed} some bitches do tend to do this before a season, more so the first couple, then normaly things settle,
Is there a set time of day that she is more likely to do it? morning evening or is it random,
also how long has it been going on, eg how many weeks or months,
shona x

Hi Sez sounds like you are going through a bad patch, hope things improve soon on the back and smoking front.

Puppies of Ambers age have a short attention span. Millie is almost 6 months old and bit older than Amber but she still gets easily distracted outside by a floating leaf or bit of stick and promptly forgets what she has gone out to do On occasions when she is outside playing alone (I always watch her through the window to make sure she isn't eating anything she shouldn't) she will relieve herself and that is a bonus but it does not mean she is house trained.

When I go out there with her I am aware when she has not relieved herself and I stay with her until she does (though she will frequently go on command now) or if she continues being distracted I take her inside then out again a few moments late, I only relax for a couple of hours when I know for sure she has done both and is 'empty'.

Remember puppies don't physically begin to get full control of bodiy functions before 4 months of age, and it can take a number of months to get full control so until then we need to be vigilant and think for them

Only when they are physically mature and the going outside has been reinforced over and over can we be sure they will be clean inside.

Millie has had one accident since I had her, on that occasion she was waiting on the lead to go out of the front door and I went back to answer the phone. I watch her like a hawk and leave her alone in the kitchen when I know she is 'empty' (she will of course go for longer periods without relieving herself when she is sleeping ).

This may seem like a lot of trouble but in all it only takes a few months to fully house train a puppy and this is a very short time when compared to potty training a baby

What a brilliant quote, I love that!!

Nothing more to add, except that in training being persistant and consistent are the keys to making it click!:smt002