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Colin
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28-03-2008, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
I have absolutely no problem with somebody disagreeing with me, but you have catagorically stated the dog is undershot, when is is passed "excellent" on confirmation and temperament. Its NOT a judging thing Colin with these tests, the dogs are tested on specific details, points of the body, MOUTH, teeth, construction and temperament. They dont pass as excellent if they fail any one point, its not like a dog show, the prettiest one gets passed, or the one that catches the judges eye, Im not sure you understand what the grading is all about?


Colin thats a dog show! The judges choice of what he thinks looks best on the day, NOT a conformation and temperament exam.
Yes I know that, but I was using that as an example. Human error has to be taken in consideration.
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Colin
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28-03-2008, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Not an expert no Colin, but having exhibited several breeds for 20yrs, and owned several too, plus working with upto 116 Dogs a day at any one time, I think its fair to say I have seen a few undershot, overshot, wry mouths.
That's your problem, you are comparing to many different breeds to each other to make a proper comparision.


Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Becky, im sure its the underjaw he is referring to, the fact it is deep and he isnt used to seeing a correct one.
Don't talk so stupid.
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Borderdawn
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28-03-2008, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
That's your problem, you are comparing to many different breeds to each other to make a proper comparision.




Don't talk so stupid.
LOL! well thats how it comes across Colin, it really is, sorry.
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Colin
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28-03-2008, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
LOL! well thats how it comes across Colin, it really is, sorry.
Everyones entitled to an opinion on this forum.
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boobah
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28-03-2008, 10:43 PM
To tell the truth I'd like to see a wee pic of Merlins bite if thats possible,please,xxxxxxxx
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Anne-Marie
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28-03-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
Anne-Marie first of all my critique of Merlin was in post 20 and not the one you highlighted from.
The reason I made that statement you highlighted was because Mo the OP had already stated that Merlin had been given excellent 1 for his confirmation in France (Post 3), and Dawn (Borderdawn) in post 22 had stated and I quote "I can see where his markings are a bit smudgy there Mo" and I had also said that his coat was patchy.

I'm sorry but the fact are really simple. This dog would not reach the standard required to enter into a German championship show, You see the standard of those shows is really high and all I was trying to do was put things into perspective.
It just that Merlin is not in the same league as a full German dobe so would be able to enter.

Also I have never once been rude to either the OP or Dawn, all I'm doing is pointing out observations about Merlin as I see them. These are my opinions about the dog and no one else’s.

The other thing is that I said in post 20 and I quote "but his lower jaw looks very slightly undershot, but that could just be the photo". At no point have I condemned the dog, as Minihaha seems to think. So please don't try to make my comments into something they are not.

For all those that are trying to work out how you can tell if a dog has a undershot jaw or not you need to look at the teeth and not the jaw itself.

An undershot jaw is when the front teeth (incisors) of the lower jaw overlap or project beyond the front of the upper jaw when the mouth is closed. Boxers and Bulldogs are good examples of this bite. All Dobes will be disqualified from the breed ring in the UK if it is "undershot" by more than 1/8 of an inch.

The proper bite is a "true scissors" -lower incisors upright and touching inside of upper incisors.

Just so you know an Overshot jaw is when the front teeth (incisors) of the upper jaw overlap and do not touch the front teeth of the lower jaw when the mouth is closed. All Dobes will be disqualified from the breed ring in the UK if it is "overshot" more than 3/16 of an inch.

I hope that has cleared up the issue once and for all.

I appreciate your reply Colin.

Perhaps it would have been more constructive if you had worded it like this in your previous reply, instead of saying :-


"Put it this way if he was to be put up against a German champion dobe he would be laughed out of the arena"

That could definately have been put more diplomatically and is certainly not putting things into perspective or in a constructive manner

Also when you said:-
"but I still stick by my opinion that Marlin is by no way the perfect dog Mo says he is"

I see nowhere where she says he IS perfect!!! Merlin was put up for an honest, impartial critique just like every Dogsey dog is. I would like to say that there is no such thing as a PERFECT dog, they simply don't exist! Even a multi-champ winner has it's flaws for heavens sake!!!

I get the feeling he just isn't 'your type' - well that is fine, every 'judge' has their own personal taste and opinion.

But still, please try and critique accordingly to the rules
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zoeybeau1
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28-03-2008, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by boobah View Post
To tell the truth I'd like to see a wee pic of Merlins bite if thats possible,please,xxxxxxxx
Me to then we can see for ourselves what all the arguing is for.
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Anne-Marie
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28-03-2008, 11:01 PM
I don't see why she should post a pic of Merlins bite at all, just to settle a disagreement between members! (His merits seem to speak for themselves) He should be critiqued on the pics already provided (and excellent pics I may add )

Where has anyone else had to show their dogs bite on a critique?

Let's face it, he is of a different type to what we are used in in little old England. Because of this we get varying degrees of reaction to him!
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Malady
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28-03-2008, 11:03 PM
I think he is a stunning dog, and although I detest the act of cropping, I think his head is stunning

I too would like to see his bite, as I am undecided !
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Colin
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28-03-2008, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Anne-Marie View Post
I appreciate your reply Colin.

Perhaps it would have been more constructive if you had worded it like this in your previous reply, instead of saying :-


"Put it this way if he was to be put up against a German champion dobe he would be laughed out of the arena"

That could definately have been put more diplomatically and is certainly not putting things into perspective or in a constructive manner

Also when you said:-
"but I still stick by my opinion that Marlin is by no way the perfect dog Mo says he is"

I see nowhere where she says he IS perfect!!! Merlin was put up for an honest, impartial critique just like every Dogsey dog is. I would like to say that there is no such thing as a PERFECT dog, they simply don't exist! Even a multi-champ winner has it's flaws for heavens sake!!!

I get the feeling he just isn't 'your type' - well that is fine, every 'judge' has their own personal taste and opinion.

But still, please try and critique accordingly to the rules
Anne-Marie your correct there never will be such a thing as the perfect dobermann because everyone like something different about them. But my point is that I just don't believe he is good enough to be given an excellent 1 for his confirmation.

As I said if two totally different people can see what appears to be simple flaws in him just be looking at his photo's then something must be wrong somewhere.

I have never said he was a bad dog, but in my opinion just no where near as good as he has been awarded, and he wouldn't have a chance against a good German dog.
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