I know someone who breeds "working" malinois who turns down MANY people who apply to have their dogs.

If the dog has a poor temperament it will not get far in any discipline let alone Schutzhund.

It means whatever you want it to mean there are just as many breeders of Malinois with poor temperaments breeding for show or pet I am afraid.

Are there any Working Trial, Agility, Flyball, HWTM, Obedience, Gundog breeders who run any kind of rescue for those dogs bred specifically for the sport. (And by that I mean specifically breeders as opposed to breed clubs etc)?

As I said before, Malinois were being used as Police dogs nearlly a hundred years ago (as I am sure you know if you know your breed history) it is nothing new.

Just as many other breeds were, so this macho image is nothing "new".

I do not know what the answer is; we have never found the answer for any breed or subgroup of dogs in the UK and I doubt we ever will.

Most breed rescues are overflowing with poor temperament dogs, I know "my" two breeds are as I spend a great deal of time assessing both dogs and homes.

The same is true of dog shelters, they "select" those dogs they will accept, they do not accept dogs that have little chance of being rehomed.

It is a heartbreaking situation all round
Although to an extent I believe you will find a higher preportion of dogs with not to great tempraments in rescue of any breed
I remember when I was getting Ben and I was told at the dogs trust how important early socalisation was for a good temprament, and at the dogs trust they were less likely to get back a well socalised dog - because if the owner couldnt look after them someone would always step up
and I know its true
I have had plenty of people telling me if anything ever happened to me they would take Ben
Noone has ever offered that for Mia

I do feel sad tho that such a small breed in this country is looking to basically split the breed
I dont think any good breeders would be producing dogs with bad tempraments - so the problem isnt working/show breeders - its good/bad breeders

Exactly, well said BenMcF

Trouble is, the breeders flooding the market probably don't read the dog papers - and most if not all of the dogs coming in are neither chipped nor papered.

On the plus side, some of the mainstream rescue centres are liaising with BSD breed rescue, knowing that they have a rather specialist dog on their hands. I am hoping that this can continue, although in future I can see the situation where they might well start thinking: "Breed rescue doesn't want to know" (as is the case for some other breeds) - probably for the wrong reasons.

The only option at the moment, I feel, is for the breed club to cherry-pick wherever they feel the dog can be rehomed; for instance, some of the puppies born in rescue could possibly be fostered out to BSD knowledgeable homes and given the right socialisation and early training, which will greatly increase their chances of finding a suitable home.

And with any that ARE rehomed with the breed club's help, a percentage of the adoption fee must go to the club's rescue funds.

It's a very difficult situation, where show breeders of Malinois are keeping puppies themselves as they aren't getting the right kind of suitable homes coming forth - and the breeders of the 'working type' ones ending up in rescue are coming in after being sold to unsuitable people.

One currently needing a home is being cared for by a 60 year old man who 'can't handle it' after being given it by his daughter's next door neighbour - the puppy is only 6 months old and nobody can 'remember' who bred it or where it came from!

One does have to question the experience and knowledge of the BYB types who are breeding Malinois - I keep my eye on the internet 'small ads' (plenty of Malinois for sale on there - many unregistered, some crossbred) - and one ad alarmed me - "Malinois for sale. These are NOT Belgian Shepherds."

I think Bijou was highlighting that there are less suitable and readily available homes for working bred Mals, than their show or agility counterparts. Which means a longer turn around on finding a home... which means funds get used up faster because those dogs are hanging around much longer in rescue.

So they might be able to rehome one working bred Mal in the same time (and at the same cost) as 3 or 4 show or agility bred Mals.

That's what I thought she was getting at anyway

Show/ag type Malis rarely if EVER end up with breed rescue. They are a small numbered breed, with very few bred each year.

And this is the problem - because they are a minority breed (or have been until now) there are few people experienced enough that are able or suitable to take on these dogs either as fosters or permanently. And of those who DO have experience, some have little or no experience of the working line variety, which can have a great deal more drive and energy.

That is not to say those with the show line dogs can't deal with that.... but it's somewhat magnified in these dogs coming into rescue, as many have not been properly trained or socialised which is vital with this breed (any line or breeding) and can't always be rectified later in life.

And among those Malinois owners and breeders with the right experience, few have the space or time to take on rescues like this.

It's Catch 22, unfortunately

Just for the record - even if I was currently able (which I'm not) I personally would not take on one of these working type dogs in rescue. I don't have the experience or knowledge to rectify the lack of proper early training and socialisation most of them have missed out on.

Agreed. Come to think of it, almost all the rescue Mals we've seen posted on Dogsey have been working bred or failed police dogs (thinking about those two bitches from last year, or was it this year? My minds gone blank!).

I think only Bijou, you and the others involved in the rescue of these dogs can truly know where and how you can serve your breed (and ethics) best tbh - the rest of us can just offer our opinions, which hopefully has given some food for thought.

I would be too scared to take on a show/ag one let alone a working bred one

It is a huge, horrible shame, Bijou. Having some knowledge of just how small the BSD world is (in my opinion) compared to, say, the GSD, Lab, etc world, then breed rescue must be very hard put to help even a small amount of dogs.

Also of course, it is not right that working lines take rescue priority over the rest!

I don't know what to say, except that I share your pain. It is very sad that some of the working fraternity aren't interested in helping, when they are causing some of the problem (because of the dogs being working lines, I mean, that are coming in) A good breeder of any breed should keep pups or take them back when needed, the breeder of my dog always has done.

2 entire litters is ridiculous - where did these come from? Makes me so mad! What if that same person is breeding again?

I do think there are some things worse than euthanasia. I have recently seen a lovely working lines Mali in a small rescue that is doing so well by him, he is in foster; but when he came in, he was very thin and scared. Now he is doing well, but he needs the right home. And that is just the one dog.

I think if it came to it, and if it was thought that the dogs might end up in bad homes/bad situation then perhaps putting them to sleep might be the kindest option? I feel awful saying that, and it's NOT fair that that should even have to be thought about.

The world is a very hard place sometimes. Rescues generally are in a hard place at the moment, I hope things improve but ....

Sending support, and sincerely wish I had that magic wand....

Wys
xx

That's because the Malis [note: Malis - not Mals! Mals are Alaskan Malamutes! ] from the handful of show breeders in the UK don't end up in rescue.

About 7 years ago when I started looking for a BSD when the time was right, I first contacted BSD rescue. I was told they had a couple of working Malis in then - nothing like the tide they have now - and I would not have been allowed to take one on as I was new to the breed.

I spent months scouring the internet for rescue BSDs of any flavour, even looking at expired ads and dogs already homed via rescue going back a few years, and there was nothing much at all. Many of the ones in free-ads were GSDs and crosses, not Belgians (this still occurs among the unwashed in the free-ads). Malinois were not coming up under that radar at all.

I still keep up with the free ads and if you do a search now you will find any number of Mali or Mali crosses for sale. A friend in Keighley, W Yorks, contacted me 2 weeks ago via FB to say - "There's a litter of Malinois for sale in my town!" I replied, well sadly that's the way it's going...
She was amazed as she had only heard of the breed from me and thought they were rare

It's a mess and it's going to be a bigger mess. And I really don't know how it can be addressed