Off the net, I really can't remember, as it was in the Uk, can try and find it for you if want.
The ones I had in the UK, came in a standard window size, and then could adjust by pulling the sides and an extension came out, then when it was snug inside the window,it had a bar where you turned a catch and it stayed there by tension. Bought them for the living room.

I actually preferred that sort, as the ones here, are on the outside, and doofus has actually jumped at one after a squirrel, and managed to tear part of it off the frame in our old house. He's much better these days though

Sorry everyone, I will read each and every post, but I just can't at the moment, I'm at work.

I just wanted to respond very quickly to Tazer, and say that we have indeed got the desired result - Ben, having received only 2 "stims" in earnest, has NEVER run off since, NEVER ignored a call - since last Thursday. It is now Tuesday, and Mike lets me know every day how the morning walk went, because that's obviously the walk where Ben has the most beans! He has not put a paw wrong - he is still exactly the same Ben, bouncy and roaring round as ever, but as soon as he starts to disappear over the horizon, Mike whistles and calls Come, and back he comes, sometimes not instantly, usually in a meandering circle, but he comes back. He is safe to walk in the part of the woods which run adjacent to the field where sheep potentially could be, and he does not run out of the woods and onto the road where he used to. He has learned very quickly and with the minimum amount of pain that he can range wherever he wants, but he must adhere to the boundaries that we set him. He knows now that when he is called, he must not run away. We don't expect him to come galloping straight back to our sides and screech to a halt, with this type of dog that is rarely going to happen, even Tai is not that obedient, but all we ask is that he comes back into our close vicinity.

We are not irresponsible owners letting our dogs run loose around sheep, Ben by running off as he did could potentially reach sheep several fields away - it is THIS that we were aiming to stop. When the sheep are in the field surrounding one side of the wood, both dogs of course go on the lead.

I will attempt to wade through all the posts tonight, thanx everyone.

I'll have to look into the screens, thanks We're moving in a couple of months and from what I can gather we won't be out in the middle of nowhere so hopefully won't have sheep so close that they're a problem. At the moment I just watch him like a hawk when the windows are open and I sit by the only window he's likely to go out of.

Gnasher.. i truly believe even if u think it is the wrong way to go now...there is no way u would admit it

If my OH wanted to use an electric shock collar on Tilly, I'd throw the toaster in the bath with him....plugged in! See If he still liked the idea of an electric shock then!

I would definitely put the e collar around his manly bits & give him full power for a few minutes & then boot him out of the door for good

Im not sure they make collars that small!

If it is en e collar or the life of the dog then I would have to say that I would choose the e collar (if I was ever in a position where it was the only way & I had tried everything else.) Perhaps its different in england but here in tx if your dog wonders into someone elses' pasture with their livestock they run tehe risk of being shot, I would rather my dog be stemmed then shot. Its not like (in this case) they associate the stem with the human, they associate it with running off, since they get rewarded for returning then they don't connect the two IMHO.

But the point is that a reponsible owner would never have to put their dog in this position. There's nothing to stop OP putting her dog on a lead or longline for walks and finding a secure area to let him have off-lead exercise so she can work on his recall safely. It is not a case of use an e-collar or he dies, here it's a case of the e-collar being the easier, quick-fix option and the OP not willing to put the work in. 6 months is definately not enough time to have ruled out every possible option to make the e-collar the last attempt, and if she was really trying everything then why not try the "keep my dog controlled on a longline and go out of my way to find safe offlead areas for the rest of his life if that's what it takes" approach? Others manage it, I had to with my past dog and I personally know people who have to now. Take Moon's Mum/Amanda for example - she's had Cain for just over a year now and she is constantly working on his training on a daily basis. She may not be able to let him off-lead yet but has she gone for the easier option of an e-collar? No, she goes out of her way to provide him with stimulating walks on a longline, spending money to get a walker in to provide him with exercise and training, joining him up to agility classes even though she is limited with transport. I was with Amanda when she had a trainer try to "sell" her onto the e-collar idea - he had a spare one with her so she could've easily said fine, go ahead, make my life easier and given it a try but she walked away from the guy. Gnasher could have perservered without the e-collar, make extra provisions for her dog, and compromises for her dog's safety but she chose not to, so she can't try to pass it off as if she had no other choice.

If it were the dogs life or beat him with a big stick when he didn`t come back?
If it were the dogs life or give him a good kicking when he didn`t come back?
If it were the dogs life or scream abuse and strangle him when he didn`t come back?
If it were the dogs life or give him a painful jolt of electricity when he didn`t come back?
If it were the dogs life or keep him on a lead round livestock.

Which of the above makes sense?