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Lucky Star
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11-11-2012, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
I think most people, when they do bad things do so because at that point in their life they didn't know better - and that's completely normal, and part of maturing as and becoming a better person.

But when people continue to do bad things (especially when they have been shown/proven to be bad by others) that's when I would consider them a bad person. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case with CM - he even has the cheek to deny the punches are punches when it is as clear as daylight to everyone else (ref AT interview).

Nice to see you hanging around - we often have debates that (can sometimes) get a little heated but we remain friends and civil at the end of it
I was just about the post the same. You beat me to it!
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Wysiwyg
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12-11-2012, 08:29 AM
Just for interest, here is a vid showing how methods very different to CM are helping dogs.

This takes skill rather than brute force, of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjIo...layer_embedded

Published on 9 Nov 2012 by sacdogtrainer


"After writing "The Dog Whisperer Controversy," I have read many emails from fans of the show that claim reward-based trainers don't work with "red zone" dogs. And yet, I use reward-based methods on a daily basis to work with dogs that are reactive or exhibit aggressive behaviors.

To fans of the show, before emailing me, please read the following:

If you want to see me "try it with a Pit Bull or Rottweiler," please do some research. Different breeds don't learn differently, are not any harder to train, and are not more aggressive.

Yes, that is a stuffed dog. We use these in the early stages of training. Dogs have no concept of manufacturing. Therefore, if they perceive other dogs as a threat, they will react to something that looks like a dog. Once the dog can demonstrate changed behavior around the stuffed dog, THEN we practice with live dogs. This keeps all dogs safe and doesn't subject my dogs to a constant onslaught of reactive dogs.

...

Unfortunately, I am not able to repeat this information via email for those who don't want to do their research and would rather make arguments based on personal beliefs."



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Wysiwyg
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12-11-2012, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by jeagibear View Post
I would suggest you ask those fanatics, how many times he asks for a a Vet check. I would suggest.. None!
He never seems to worry wether there is a medical problem, first!!
Yes, that is very worrying as some behaviour problems can be due to a medical problem. For example liver shunts can cause problematic behaviour which may look like aggression. Hypothyroid can cause anxiety/aggression etc etc.

I will never forget the poor little dog who was NOT given a vet check and ended up with CM. It was eventually discovered the dog had actual spinal deformities that could not be helped, but not before CM had tried to make the poor thing swim in a bucket and subjected it to his pack of dogs

He showed no compassion and kindness, and certainly no professionalism! As someone who works with dog behaviour, I have to get veterinary permission before I work on a dog, this is so that we know the behaviour is not related to any kind of medical problem.

CM doesn't give his dogs and owners the same courtesy.

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Wysiwyg
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12-11-2012, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by Azz View Post
.....

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case with CM - he even has the cheek to deny the punches are punches when it is as clear as daylight to everyone else (ref AT interview).
...]
I must admit that CM loses so many points for being so evasive in that interview.

To kind of pretend he doesn't punch and then eventually, when backed into a corner, to admit he does, shows how very disingenous (sp?) he can be.

He does know he punches, he just doesn't like to call a spade a spade in case people actually don't like it.

He's dishonest

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Gnasher
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12-11-2012, 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
Wow, thanks

I'm not going, I just think with emotions and feelings running so high on this subject it has become pointless, and very unballanced.

Nobody is all bad, nobody is all good. People do bad things and people do good things.
Is somebody a bad person because they once did something bad, No of course not, they are just human. Who among us has no regrets?

Now look what you have done, you got me posting on a CM thread again
Ah, that's why I'm called Gnasher!! Once I get my teeth into somebody or something, I never let go!!

Glad you're back mate
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Gnasher
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12-11-2012, 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Something you will learn, when ever a CM thread comes along, it will always go the way this one has, and that due to it being a highly emotive subject, and on this site at least, will always be balanced or unbalanced depending on your viewpoint.

Its simply down to the fact, that we are a dog lovers site and as such hate to see injustice or abusive treatment of dogs.



That`s true, but when the bad outweighs the good then any good said person may do is lost under the weight of ALL the badness.
Agree with your second paragraph, totally disagree with your last one Jackbox!
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