Hm interesting Beagles have HD & MRD so were the parents of your dogs tested ??? If not why did you buy the puppies ?

As the KC and show breeders are under the same umbrella, I assume with your negative attitude towards both, it was self explanatory


I dont understand why you would even consider buying a kC registered pup , if that is how you feel.


I think that void has already been filled with what is called BYB`s..... there are plenty of poor quality unregistered dogs being bred by and for people who dont want to go down the route of buying responsibly.

Luckily, by listening to people , there are still far more people willing to listen and learn where and from whom to buy a well bred healthy pup.


Would that be Beagles you are talking about... since when do they not suffer with any health problems...

Did your breeder do any of the required tests on their dogs.



That's your choice!!!



I dont think the KC, breeders or any one can guarantee anyone 100% a healthy dog.. they can only do their best in breeding from health tested stock, quality yes, thats what good breeders do...

Of Cause there is, as in all working type breeds.. there will be show and working type..

As for hounds, I know of some hunt kennels who are allowing their studs to be used on show dogs... their is a very successful show kennel of foxhounds, who has used one of the top stud hunting hounds on her bitches..

Obviously they seem to admire traits in both strains..



That's a little contradictory is`nt it..in one sentence you say they should be bred to work, then follow on to say there is not enough work for dogs...

The show ring does not have a monopoly on breeding... as you say there are many factors for breeding..working hounds/gundogs and the list goes on.

As for mos tpeopel who buy pets..they want their dogs to look like th ebred they are buying... and till the day that ends.. the show world will have a part to play, after all , they ar ethe ones who know the breds what they should and should not look like...

And a lot are aware of the Ladies Kennel association show. And many have been to Crufts and realise, Oh golly gosh there are trade stands .

Please don't try to be so condescending and think you are the elite and you are the only people privy to what goes on in the dog world. YOU AREN'T!!!

And you are not the only ones with views that deserve to be aired. And learn to spell

Steve

The Kennel Club advised that no health tests were required for the Beagle breed as they have no health issues.

Since being a beagle owner I have come into regular contact with lots of beagle owners, lots of beagle showers and lots of beagle breeders. The general consensus is that the Beagle breed is healthy. I have heard of just a single case of hip dysplasia (the dog in question is fully mobile and not in any apparant pain) and a problem with epilepsy (two dogs destroyed at a young age and two requiring medication) with a single breeder.

So one of two things is possible :

1. The Kennel Club were right about the Beagle breed being healthy. In this particular case no harm came about from trusting what the KC told me.
2. It's a conspiracy. Both the Kennel Club and breeders are lying and covering up the true health status of the breed.

I suspect the former but if the latter is true then all the more reason for bodies such as the BBC to make a stand and force the truth out into the open.

In that sentence you have highlighted quite nicely why I think it's so important for the Kennel Club to disassociate themselves from breeds with serious health problems and from breeders with questionable breeding practices. And why I think that if they fail to do so that large organisations such as the BBC, Dogs Trust etc should disassociate themselves from Crufts.

I personally have very good experiences with show breeders so I know there are good ones. I don't assume that all show breeders are bad. People that haven't had my good experiences with show breeders are highly likely to react in the way that you incorrectly assumed that I would.

We only bought our second pup a few weeks ago - AFTER the BBC documentary aired, and AFTER lots of large groups started to pull out of Crufts. At the time of buying him I know that KC registration meant nothing of value to me. I knew that there were plenty of KC registered dogs suffering from serious health problems brought about by poor breeding practices. I chose my second pup based upon my own research. The fact that he is KC registered was simply not relevant to me.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you missread this next bit

To which you responded....

Surely you are not suggesting that Back Yard Breeders endorse only breeders that have a track record of producing healthy pups with great temperaments!!!!???!!

As I said, the KC say there are NO required tests for Beagles.

Again, I think you've missread what I said here...

to which you responded...

If you read again you'll see that I said that a lot of breeders of working dogs are very much against breeding for the show ring. I disagree with them. There is no contradiction. Just a difference in opinion - I think it's fine to breed dogs for lots of different roles in our society.

You are forgetting that very many pets are show ring rejects. Mine wouldn't win shows but to me they are just wonderful. As for whether the show people know best about how the breed should look - well I think in the case of Beagles you'll find quite a bit of dissagreement between show breeders and pack hound breeders!! Mine looks like a cross between a pack and show hound - in my opinion the best of both worlds . If it were possible to make my dogs even better for me then it wouldn't be by making them look more like show champions or by making them look more like pack hounds. It would be by ensuring that they had the best possible health and that they would live long, healthy lives without running up big vet bills. I have a friend who breeds beagles but doesn't show them. Her only consideration is in producing good, healthy pets. Some of her dogs are very highly regarded by show breeders. She still produces great looking dogs, but she'd rather have dogs with exceptional good health than dogs that had good enough health and great show careers. This friend of mine contacted the KC about their responsible breeder scheme (can't remember the name of it). She wanted to know what health tests she should have done for her dogs to qualify. She was told that there were no health tests for beagles as there were no health issues with beagles.

I understand that the KC don't want to alienate large numbers of breeders and breeds. But by associating themselves with the bad ones they render themselves useless to many prospective dog owners and to breeders that are looking to become members of a group that stands for exceptional health and superb breeding practices. By choosing to associate with the 'bad breeds and breeders' they harm their reputation terribly. And I think that will hit them harder in the long run than the loss of revenue from the BBC.

Steve dont be so rude, Eunice is one of the nicest people on the forum, missing a letter out is hardly an excuse for you to be so nasty!

Where did I say I was the elite and I was not trying to be condescending only stating what I think and just like you I am entitled to an opinion.

YOU Should perhaps learn not to take things so personally and not be so insulting.

Dito.. well said

Exactly , how rude, it is considered extremely bad mannered to point out such things... and one missing letter is hardly a case for your remark.

Ill repeat what Joedee said as you seemed to have missed it. Were the parents of both of your Beagles tested for hip dysplasia and MRD?

Did you not think to look to the breed club for health issues in the breed...as they are there for all to see.



Out of every litter of pups, a small minority will go to show homes, the breeder keeping the pick of litter, and maybe the stud dog owner keeping the second... the rest will go to pet homes..... rejects!!! is a strong word and as far as I know most breeders would not consider them to be so...

I know friends of mine who breed, would be highly insulted if you called her pups rejects!!!!!!!


[ This will not be unique to Beagles...all breeds who have a split work/show type will have the same opinion.

One is not better than the other..both have there purpose...and enthusiasts will probably never agree on conformation...but as long as both health test their stock, is matters not.

Horses for Causes... as they say!!!