That's right, that a problem for you Still looking for an argument? How sad

A dog can become agressive for any number of reasons. The majority of aggressive dogs were not born that way, some are aggressive as a direct result of training 'methods' some are aggressive because they have been attacked by people or other dogs..not many are aggressive totally because of their genetic make up.
Dogs have many other problems, aside from aggression, grooming issues (mentioned on here and was on a CM show), fear issues, issues with travelling ...spending in the house,no recall off lead all sorts of things that are inappropriate behaviours. Not quite sure why you keep focusing on aggression like it's the only issue a dog can have.

Firstly, I didn't say aggression was the only issue a dog can have, so let's not start twisting things, eh My dogs don't have any issues with the above. Can't comment on the "recall" as I have to keep my dogs onlead for their own safely, so that could be a problem if ever we moved and I allowed them off-lead, who knows I doubt it though as they look to me for leadership, so I shouldn't think it would be too much of a problem.

In my opinion, people make big deals of some natural behaviour. Sure the first time you bath a dog, they are a little afraid. I don't fiff and faff, it's a new experience for them and with their owner showing confidence and carrying on, by the next bath, they are perfectly fine. Years ago, people didn't spend hours on forums or have their noses in books or using clickers for training, the dogs just followed their owners lead and I don't recall growing up around any problem dogs.

Nowadays, going by this thread, you're not regarded as an owner that understands dogs unless you've read half a dozen books and attended a few seminars, which I find utterly ridiculous

tv producers dont care about the dogs as much as the raitings and as cm is not breaking any laws concerning dog abuse then they show him on tv

i in no way think i know everything which is why i am always researching and learning, not just paper understanding but looking at my own dogs and all the dogs i come into contact witj

and is why i also post on here for advice from more knowladgable people on here

we are v lucky that there are some great experts on here who take the time to try and help people with problems

the way i see it is over thousands of years we have bred the dogs that are easiest to work with
that means that most dogs are pretty easy and smart enough to learn what you want of them from lots of different training methods
just as long as they are being given some form of training then they are pretty easy for any dog owner, sure we might have to think a little and will make mistakes on the way but our dogs are pretty forgiving

but there are some more difficult dogs, whatever the reason
they have more deep seated problems and the ones an incorrect methods can really dammage

are there any people on here who have actually taken on and trained a true 'red zone' dog using cm's methods and actually been sucessful?
what was the dogs problems and what did you do to fix them?

i know there are several people on here who have done that with positive training and counterconditioning

and btw its cm who keeps going on about dom, rem the link a few weeks ago where he even said the dog was dom to light?!?

Years ago people didn't pick up dog poo...nor take them for walks in the main as people thought it normal to let their dogs out to walk themseleves. Times change.
You may find it ridiculous CC but as someone else said (think it was Kruse) you may like cars, own cars and know about types of cars...but until you know what goes on under the bonnet you can never totally understand and know about them.... knowledge and experience must go hand in hand surely?

As for dogs looking to their owners for leadership not having recall issues....not quite sure i know what you mean.

Ramble, it appears you're never quite sure what I mean about anything, so no surprise there.

As for the comments about knowledge and experience, I take it that you mean you have to read books (which is actually only somebody's opinion, as I don't know of any dogs that have written books themselves) so really, you're learning what somebody else thinks.

I'll read books on breeding, because I can learn practicalities from that. However, as for the interpretation of a dogs feelings/actions, no, I won't read that. I follow my own gut instinct with regard my dogs. It hasn't led me too far wrong in the present or the past.

As for dogs walking themselves years ago I don't know where you come from but in London, where I was brought up, dogs didn't take themselves for walks. Their owners took them out on leads, so not much has changed there. Poo clearing, yes, people have become more in tune with hygiene (thank goodness) but that isn't attributable to dogs, that's a totally human thing. Dogs are still the same as they were years ago. It's only the humans that have changed their behaviour towards their dogs.

Nope only some humans unfortunately...as a direct result of finding out more about dog behaviour.
Others haven't changed at all.

I still don't understand what you mean about a dog that looks to you for leadership not having recall issues. Genuinely interested in what you mean.

And who's to say that they should change? You and some other people think that the answer to the doggy mind is in a book. I and others don't agree. That doesn't make us wrong so there's no "unfortunately" about it in my mind.

No. Not at all.
Example.
I read Turid Rugaas' book on Calming Signals.
A couple of weeks later I did my ususal volunteering up at a rescue.
I approached the kennel of a beautiful dog who had been abused and was very nervous. Each time I approached he ran and hid as best he could bless him and was lick lipping/scratching/yawning and if I got too close growling quietly.
I remembered I had read about dogs approaching each other in curves and so I went away...came back and approached in a curve, slowly and with my head down...he didn't run. He did the same but stayed a distance away.
I sat down, side on and lo and behold he came to me.
It was a really overwhelming moment for me and sounds a little crass when written down but this boy was so scared. I then saw members of the public, approach his cage talking to him and holding their hands out and he legged it....but when they left, he came back to me, within 5 minutes he was asking for tickles and presenting me with toys to play with.
Without the book...without reading and learning I would not have tuned into that dog that day and known how I could make him feel better about me approaching. He made me cry. I would never have been able to rehome that special boy, but hopefully my countless afternoons spent tickling him and playing in a non threatening manner...as a DIRECT result of something i had read...well hopefully it will have at the very least helped him feel relaxed for a while. Without the book I would never,ever have thought of approaching him in a curve. I would also have interpreted his initial behaviour as aggressive...given the way he presented himself to me. It would have been my loss as I would have gone on and given my attention elsewhere.

It is arrogant CC to assume you know everything there is to know about dogs and their behaviour, just from living with a few. I have lived with many,many dogs...and would never assume I know everything and don't need to further my knowledge. I watch CM and I read and read and read....sometimes reading things you don't agree with or watching things you don't agree with is very much part of the learning process. To say I don't need to read or hear other people's opinions is not something I would do. I value it all....as well as getting practical hands on experience with my own and other dogs.

Still not sure what you mean about the leadership/recall thing...

i dont think the key to a dogs mind is in a book

but as what our guts are telling us about what the dogs are feeling are so different then it seems just going by the gut is not enough
so i will take my advice from the people who have actually studied what it all means, looked at the real stress levels that the dogs have when exhibiting these signals



i forgot, someone asked what to do when a dog showed these calming signals
the dog is telling you it isnt comfy with the situation, personaly i back off and try and figure out how to make the dog more confident in the situation

ben displayed some of these with the seesaw in agility
so i put one in the sitting room, put treats all over it till he was happily interacting with it
then every day before we went for a walk we did the seesaw once then right out for a walk

within 3 days he was running off and doing the seesaw when i was putting my shoes on to hurry me along