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Keybeagle
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Keybeagle is offline  
Location: East Yorkshire
Joined: May 2006
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15-05-2006, 01:07 PM

New Puppy Howling/Barking/Crying In Crate All Night - Driving Me Crazy!!!!

Hiya all,

Well I will start with abit of back ground information in order to get the best help possible.

Our GSD was put to sleep a couple of weeks ago and left a huge hole in our hearts and home. In order to fill the void we decided to visit the rescue kennels and brought home a gorgeous cross breed bitch whom we called Missy as she didnt have a name (number 1672 I think!!) She is roughly 6 months old and has her adult teeth. We are told she is a cross rottweiler but after abit of research she looks like a rottweiler/hound but personally I see Doberman in her aswell so who knows lol.

We were advised at the rescue Kennels to buy a crate for her that day (Tuesday 9th May 2006) and crate her during the evening.

When we got her home we put the crate up and left it in the living room as she got herself used to it and her new surroundings. Obviousley the evening came and we put her crate in the Kitchen which is were she will be sleeping.

The first night my wife and I didnt get any sleep at all, Missy was howling, barking and crying all night. She was bribed into the crate with treats and went in there on her own accord. It started as soon as we left her and continued until I got up at 5am. We didnt go to her at all in the evening and good news is that she didnt poop or wee in her crate We made the crate (or bed as we call it) as comfortable as possible. I held a teddy all night and left that in for her so it had my scent on, we left the radio on and gave her some nice treats. Seemingly it all had no effect as she cried all night.

It is now night 7 tonight and it doesnt seem to have ceased much. After the first night I did alot of reading on the internet and learnt about the famous Kongs, which we went out and bought that night. You have to realise Missy is far too intelligent for her own good. She knows it is a bribe to get her in her crate and now just ignores it and lays in the living room. We are literally having to pick her up and put her in the crate.

We have done all of the crate training as advertised, leaving her for short periods to start, then longer periods etc etc. On Saturday evening I fell asleep on the sofa waiting for the boxing to start and therefore she was not put in the crate and I woke at 5am to find her asleep in her crate!!! However when you try and put her in it, she wont have any of it?

So, I mean this in the greatest of respect, however I know what many people would advise here, and that is to have the crate in our bedroom until she gets used to it. This is not going to work!!! Many reasons really, my wife goes to bed early because she is up early for work and she normally goes to bed at 9.30pm, I follow at anytime after that. Therefore she will be running up and downstairs all night (3 storeys, our bedroom being the top). Also we dont want her to get used to having the run of the house. There is a baby gate at the bottom of the stairs to prevent her access which she hates and cries at when I go upstairs, this is for 1 minute when it isnt worth crating her.

I know it has only been a week since she came here and she is getting used to us and her new surroundings. When we brought her from the kennels it looks like she had been with her sister for 3 months in the same kennel so I am sure that isnt nice for her being apart. I am just wondering if we are actually doing the right thing at the moment.

I would be extremely grateful if anyone could answer these questions or offer us some form of advice -

1. - Currently we are literally having to pick her up and put her in the crate on an evening. We feed her in the crate and her water is in the crate, which she only goes in when she knows we are sat down and cant lock her in. When she is in the crate and we are in the kitchen with her she is fine, she just sits down, sometimes lays, and sulks!! As soon as you leave the room she starts to whine and cry, then howl and then full blown barks. Are we doing the right thing by putting her in the crate? People say it all takes time, however what are we supposed to do when we want to sleep or an hour to ourselves so to speak! The lady next door says she had the same problem with her dog but after 2 weeks of crying he stopped and now loves his crate. She advises to keep with it and try to ignore the crying which I am prepared to do aslong as it stops soon.

2. - She is clearly recognising the Kong and treats as a bribary to get her into the crate. Should we start giving her treats in the living room and gradually move them to the crate?

3. - We are trying to put her in the crate for short periods of time during the day but after doing it just then, she is in the kitchen and can see me but after about 30 seconds she has started crying. We cannot possibly have her crate in the living room because it is too big so the kitchen is the only viable place to have it. She is quiet until she realises you arent there and then cries etc etc. Is this the right thing to continue doing during the day or are we causing her to dislike the crate even more?

4 - Lastnight was the first time she escaped from it. Somehow she forced the door open? I tell you, very clever. My wife got up to find her laid in the kitchen. I am totally 100% sure if she wasnt crated she would chew the house as I have already caught her doing this (skirting board). Now when you put her in her crate she has started trying to escape again, I can her her rattling her crate. It really isnt that she doesnt like it because she freely goes in it when she knows she isnt going to get locked in, she just wants to be with us. Are we over-reacting and should we just carry on as we are until she realises that is her place and must go in there when we want, not when she wants?

I understand there will be alot of people who have their dogs sleeping with them and following them everywhere they go, our old GSD was like that (didnt sleep with us though) and ultimately led to his downfall, we dont want the same thing happening to Missy. We want her to sleep in the kitchen with the door closed on an evening, end of. It might sound harsh to some people but we beleive that humans also need a break aswell and having a dog licking their face 24/7 does not constitute a break in my eyes.

Sorry to bore people if you have managed to get down this far, I just thought the more information I give the better advice I may receive

We are taking her to her first obedience class tonight which should be fun lol

People say it takes time with crates which is fair enough but at some point on each day the dog has to be away from their owner, how can the dog like the crate if you lock her in it when your not there?

Anyway, I look forward to reading any replies and they will be received with great appreciation and respect

Peace
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Foxy
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15-05-2006, 01:16 PM
I'm sure someone will give you some very good advice soon and I quite understand why you want your dog to sleep in the kitchen - there is nothing wrong in that at all. Could you let her have the run of the kitchen at night times with maybe the kitchen door open and a dog gate (they are quite a lot higher than a baby gate) and just leave her crate open then she can go in it if she wants. Thats what we did with our dog when he was young and my GSD used to sleep in the kitchen too when we had him.

I can imagine how worn out you are feeling - hope you get some good advice soon.
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IsoChick
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15-05-2006, 01:31 PM
Our 12 week old puppy Max has been crated from the day he came home and he still cried all night for a while!

We spent the first three nights sleeping on the living room floor, with Max in his crate in the kitchen, so we were close enough to say "Max, quiet" or let him out for wees...

Max is currently not allowed in the living room/rest of house without supervision (and has never slept in the bedroom!)... although he has the run of the kitchen and garden when we are at home. Often when hubby and I are eating, Max will sit in his crate and cry (even though he has a bowl of food to eat!), or if we are having an hour of "grown-up" time, he will cry too. I think he thinks we're doing something more interesting!

I think Missy is maybe having some problems adjusting - from an owner to kennels, from kennels to your house. I guess it's very strange and frightening for her.

We try to tire Max out before we put him to bed, with either a walk or a play outside, or, if the weather is horrible (like today) we will play in the living room.

When we put him to bed, we take him outside for wees, and inside we turn off the tv and as many of the lights as we can to make it dark and quiet. Max is "bribed" into his crate with a biscuit or liver cake, and I get him to "down" (yay, it's his new command!), I then talk quietly to him for a few minutes etc and go upstairs. I've found that trying to keep a very calm bedtime routine, as if we were putting a baby to bed, has really helped.

Hope my experiences help a little. I think some of it may be down to Missy settling in your home. I'm sure others will come along with good advice too!

Shelley
x
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Ramble
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15-05-2006, 01:36 PM
Awwww new pup! How exciting..don't forget to post some pics!!! Welcome to DW too!!!!

You are doing soooo much for your new arrival....
It does take time and other, more qualified people will be along soon to give some cracking advice I'm convinced.

In the meantime....
have you tried putting a cover over the crate at night? This can often help it to feel more 'den' like and indictes to our pup that it's time for bed! Doesn't always work but our pups have loved it ( in the end....).

Carry on feeding your pup in the crate, once the food is finished, take the bowl out.

Only put the kong in if you are leaving her when she's awake...if you do it at night she won't get the idea to settle.

Try letting her fall asleep elsewhere then putting her in it.

Try, sitting by the side of the crate, with the door shut and cover over, totally ignore her, no matter how much fuss she makes, sit and read a book, pick you toenails, whatever, but as long as she is safe and doesn't need to spend, ignore her. You're with her and she will settle. When she lies down quietly say 'good girl' and quickly give her a treat, keep doing this and increase the amount of time you leave between giving her a treat and her lying down...you're teaching her what you expect of her and you're still there for her when she's feeling strange about it all. At night try going down to her and sitting by her cage (in the dark preferably so as not to let her think 'great it's playtime!') and wait for her to settle...you'll have a few unsettled nights but it will work (hopefully) in the long run.

Hope this helps, our current pup hated the crate initially but now he understands it's bedtime and slept til 8 am yesterday!!!! (He's 17 weeks!!!) Took about a month to settle him properly.
I undertand totally how exhausted you must feel...it does get better and will be worth it in the end. Hope these ideas help a little.
Good Luck!!!!! (There'sll be better ideas along soon!!!!!)
Ailsa x
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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15-05-2006, 02:04 PM
Perhaps try clicker training her to go into the crate with a specific command might help?

Like during the day every now and then pop a treat in the crate and as soon as she goes in click and give an even tatstier treat (liver cake, chicken, cheese etc). That way she'll learn going in is a good thing and she gets lots of attention and treats for going in? Build up to letting her go in and come back out to giving her a Kong/Rask/Dentastick with the door shut eventually, building up time for how long the door is closed etc.

On the other hand I could be completely wrong!

Here's a link for clicker training in case you're unfamiliar with it.

http://www.clickertrain.com/whatis.html
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mustards mum
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15-05-2006, 04:06 PM
I didn't want my puppy to worry so for the first week or so, although I shut him in his cage, I slept on a futon on the kitchen floor next to it so I could reassure him.

I kept this up for about a week - 10 days and I was quite happy as I got lovely warn puppy cuddles each morning, but OH decided enough was enough and insisted that I came back to bed!!!

It seems to have worked as he often takes himself off to his cage for a snooze and never cried through the night.

Good luck
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Keybeagle
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15-05-2006, 04:41 PM
Hiya again,

WOW thanks for all the replies and the words of encouragement are very helpful also

Foxy - Thanks for the the advice but unfortunately I dont think we could let her have the run of the kitchen at the moment. She has taken to chewing skirting boards so who knows what she could do to the kitchen overnight. We are however looking to removing the crate as she gets older but as Ive read with crates, once the dog is used to it, they will never let it go so this could prove difficult lol

Isochick - I have tried to have as little contact with her when i put her in a crate on an evening so maybe I might try the nicey nicey approach like you suggested. I have thought about sleeping on the sofa in the living room and leaving the door open for a few nights so she can still see me but I thought that could be giving her something which she could come to expect everynight and therefore make her worse. However from your experience, clearly not. Thanks again

Ailsa1 - I will put a few pics up later this evening She is gorgeous. The cover thing, I actually read about that earlier today and we are considering this for this evening. Maybe an old bedsheet or something which has our smell on still (it has been washed by the way lol) Youve got some great ideas there, a few of them we are going to try. Thanks for the advice regarding the Kong, considering people say their dogs go crazy for them, Missy doesnt seem to care. Even when there is cheese, chicken, and we have tried the puppy Kong squeeze thing. She is quite big now as she is 6 months old so we cant move her into the crate whilst she is asleep without her waking up, but I suppose if we keep doing it she might just go to the crate to sleep in the end instead of being woke up.

Rips - Thanks, I have considered clicker training but dont know much about it. I will take a look at the link and see what I think. We have tried your method, minus the clicker, just alot of attention for being "good girl", she knows we want her to go in, she just doesnt want to. Thx again

mustards mum - WOW understanding hubby me thinks lol (I like your quote, so so true lol). Have you found that he sleeps fine throughout the night, even when your not there?

Again thanks for the great replies, I have obviousley found a very friendly and helpful forum. Any other advice is really appreciated. We are about to set off for obedience training so I will post and let you know how she got on along with some pics of her.

Cheers
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Wysiwyg
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15-05-2006, 05:03 PM
I haven't read all the replies, forgive me, but are you putting her in the crate in the early evening (kind of?)

If for example you are working, (sorry just assuming!) then she is perhaps on her own until you come in, then after a short while put in the crate? If so then it is asking too much of her I'd think as she will be desperate for company, also being 6 months and in a newhome again she will be unsettled.

You are trying really hard to get everything right, good for you but it may help if you could post a bit of info about the daily routine?
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Trouble
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15-05-2006, 05:27 PM
I've skipped some of the replies so apologies if i repeat what others have said.
what i have always done is decide where the dog is going to have its crate on a permanent basis and put it there. Then i have to sleep as close as possible to the crate for as long as it takes. I have only done this with puppies but it does work. The first night i sleep right next to the crate on the floor in sleeping bag on the sun lounger cushions. If they wake in the night and want to wee, i let them out and then straight back into the crate. If they are just whining to be with me, i talk to them softly to reassure them and if necessary put my fingers into the crate to comfort but under no circumstances do they come out. Play it by ear for the following nights, but try to move further away from the crate and they can still hear you talking to them when they whine. With Sydney it took me about 3 weeks to actually get back to my bed but i had made it to the sofa after about a week. Rio was much easier and I was in my bed within the week and on the sofa by the third night. Stick with it but try not to rush it. lets face it you proved it yourself the night you feel asleep on the sofa, they only want to feel safe and your presence does that just gradually make them less dependant on you. Mine have never slept in my bedroom and do not have the run of the house when i am awake let alone while i am fast asleep.
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mustards mum
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15-05-2006, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Roper999
mustards mum - WOW understanding hubby me thinks lol (I like your quote, so so true lol). Have you found that he sleeps fine throughout the night, even when your not there?

He does sleep through the night from the first time I went up to my "proper" bed! I think I was the only one that had a sleepless night as I wanted to be back with him! I think he was pleased to get some peace, hubby says that I snore

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