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mishflynn
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Location: Cardiff, UK
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09-01-2008, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Mahooli View Post
If you don't want people to take issue with what you say then I suggest you don't A) make out your better dog owner because you feed raw B) that people who chose not to feed raw have little or no knowledge of correct diets C) That people who feed kibble have done little research into their dogs diets.
You are more than welcome to pay for all 6 of my dogs to be blood tested to see if your 'theory' about kibble fed dogs not being healthier than yours is actually correct.
Becky

I feed Raw for 3 years, & flynn raw from 7weeks to 2 years.I was doing it as i thought it was best for him & in General it was a struggle with him & he hated most of it & could never get him to eat enough to keep weight on. A quality Kibble is DEF the best for Him. He is Feed On Genesis.

I did always like Raw feeding & the girls did love it & did well, but became dissaillusioned because of Flynn.
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mishflynn
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09-01-2008, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Carole View Post
Please note that these sections are only for those people postively interested in the section topic. However if you wish to debate or discuss this topic you may do so in the Discussions Section which is located in the General Dog Chat Category.

Any posts not following this rule will be removed shortly - please do not respond to them.

You may also wish to refer to the Posting Guidelines, in particular point 1.

Thanks.

Opps sorry i have responded,did not see this! Sorry
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jess
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09-01-2008, 11:12 PM
I am not sure how much more I can take of this, I left last time because of *****, a year ago infact, because of my posts being torn apart. I was pleased I found a section that we could hid in and talk about feeding real food without being told we are pompous or talking down to everyone who doesn't feed this way. And in our own section we now have to defend our choice once again.
What does 'feeding dogs seperatly' have to do with talking about prey model diet.
As far as I am aware both domesticated dogs and wolves can eat real meat together without having to be seperated.
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I-mac77
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10-01-2008, 02:13 AM
Originally Posted by jess View Post
I am not sure how much more I can take of this, I left last time because of *****, a year ago infact, because of my posts being torn apart. I was pleased I found a section that we could hid in and talk about feeding real food without being told we are pompous or talking down to everyone who doesn't feed this way. And in our own section we now have to defend our choice once again.
What does 'feeding dogs seperatly' have to do with talking about prey model diet.
As far as I am aware both domesticated dogs and wolves can eat real meat together without having to be seperated.
I agree, domesticated dogs, and we should always remember that our pets are domesticated dogs, and wolves are perfectly capable of eating together. There are some exceptions, such as one dog will see off another so it can eat their food. The only difference between our pets and wild pack/group animals is that our pets can happily eat at the same time with each other, whereas, wolves and even lions have a heirachy for the order in which each animal will eat. There is no reason for our dogs to display this behaviour, as they will learn to know that they won't go without food, you may find a greedy dog though that wants anothers, but there generally isn't likely to be competition.

Why do people have to crticise each others methods of feeding. I personally have no problem with any method of feeding, and providing the dog concerned is healthy and happy what does it matter. It does get me with some people that try to use the argument that raw or prey fed is better because wolves don't eat complete food. We need to remember that wolves have evolved over the years to survive on the foods of the wild, which may not always be readily available. Their digestion system has evolved to ensure it gets the nutrients that it needs form the diet available. This is completely different to our pet dogs, who have evolved into domesticated animals where food has been provided for them.

A final thought for you to contemplate:
If you abandoned your dog in the wilderness, do you think it could survive out there? - My thoughts are if it was truly out in the wild then it would soon become ill, however I believe it would seek out civilisation and then live of our scraps, not fend for itself.

So finally, before criticising another's feeding method, remember that if there dog is healthy then why does it concern you? It is these differences that make for interesting reading, and educating!

Take care all
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mishflynn
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10-01-2008, 06:44 AM
Originally Posted by jess View Post
I am not sure how much more I can take of this, I left last time because of *****, a year ago infact, because of my posts being torn apart. I was pleased I found a section that we could hid in and talk about feeding real food without being told we are pompous or talking down to everyone who doesn't feed this way. And in our own section we now have to defend our choice once again.
What does 'feeding dogs seperatly' have to do with talking about prey model diet.
As far as I am aware both domesticated dogs and wolves can eat real meat together without having to be seperated.
Mine always ate together when i fed raw!
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Eceni
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14-03-2008, 08:08 AM
What worries me about this model is that it ignores the gut content.

When my lurcher makes a kill - rabbit - or in the old days, deer - she eats the gut first. All of it. And in the various chambers of the fore and/or hind gut, is a great mass of fermenting grass/herbage - which she eats - always, all of it.

so she's getting her 'veggies' but in a pre-digested form. The prey model diet doesn't take this into account, and because of that, as far as I can see, is deficient in a number of ways - and isn't actually a 'prey model' at all.

E
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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14-03-2008, 09:42 AM
One word - tripe! (as a food I am not being rude)
and also I feed whole ungutted fish (although I know gut contents are different)
There is also the argument that in the wild a pack of wolves (or dogs) would bring down a bigger pray and then they dont actually eat the gut content - they shake it out
Its olny when times are lean that they have to eat smaller animals that it it just easier for them to eat the whole thing
Mind you - a lurcher brining down a deer is pretty big - well done her!!

Currently I am working out the neutritional content of what I am feeding compared to compleate kibbles - so far there have been no dificiencies in vitamins or minerals

When I tidy it up a bit I will post it up if anyone is interested
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tawneywolf
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14-03-2008, 10:30 AM
I do follow the prey model diet, but I also add a desertspoonful of pureed veg with every meal.
Just had my girlies at the vets for their boosters and he commented that they were a 'little rotund' and asked if they had finished growing now!!! As they were 2 in November last I replied 'hopefully' and he told me to cut them down on what they have. I have never regretted putting my 2 onto raw at about 4 months old, I had previously fed cooked pet meat to my other dogs and when I got my girlies they had been weaned onto kibble. However my breeder does raw feed and used the Julien version, so I had loads of input and advice from her, Mys, Christine and Gnasher on here, plus others too numerous to mention. Like other raw feeders I am always complemented on their coats and general well being when I am out. My vets are OK with it as well, which I know is unusual. I changed from using tinned pet meat and kibble during the '80's when I became concerned about the additives in pet food and began buying pet meat from my local butchers and cooking it, so for me it wasn't that big a step to feeding raw (it was feeding the chicken wings and legs that was a big step for me)
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Evie
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14-03-2008, 12:12 PM
There are numerous sources that say dogs/wolves in the wild shake out stomach contents before eating the stomach itself. As Ben McF says, it's only really small prey were stomach contents aren't shaken out cos it's so small. Raw feeders that feed whole prey also tell how their dogs will shake out the content of the stomach before eating it. Alot of them also do this with smaller prey such as rabbits, but some will just consume it all.

With prey model the idea is to feed whole prey, or stick as close to that as you can, mimicing the proportions for organs/muscle/bone etc that the canines would eat in the wild.
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Colin
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14-03-2008, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by jess View Post
Would you guys ever consider having bloodwork done to see if everything is alright underneath? This is something I have considered myself recently. Might be interesting to compare the results every 6 months or so....
All my dogs get a full medical and blood test done within a week of us first rescuing them, and after looking back at the results three had very low calcium levels, one had a low white blood cell court, and were under weight. Only Skye came to us in good health.

As most of you all know I feed all my lot once a day and they are fed mostly on raw horse meat straight from the abattoir, and I also give them whole chicken, skinned rabbits, skinned sheep's heads etc and not forgetting the frozen offal which they get once a week on top of they meat.

The one thing that I have found this that after a couple of weeks off being on raw all of the dogs started to get back into shape and after three months when I took them back for their checkups their calium levels had increased and they had all put back on their weight.

I personally don't prey feed my dogs as Dobermanns were never a wild breed in the first place, so my lot get 2% of their body weight each day in meat.
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