register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Besoeker
Dogsey Veteran
Besoeker is offline  
Location: Dunstable UK
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,957
Male 
 
10-03-2017, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by Meg View Post

Most sensible dog owners take their dogs for a walk not just so their pet can relieve themselves but for the necessary mental stimulation a walk provides. If someone can't be bothered to walk their dog I would suggest they don't get one.
No argument with that. Besides the mental stimulatiion there is also the necessary exercise.
Reply With Quote
Losos
Fondly Remembered
Losos is offline  
Location: Suffolk, England
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,529
Male 
 
10-03-2017, 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Beetl View Post
What would your main concerns be around our tech that we'd need to prove we have covered? This is very useful feedback!
I'm having to constrain myself here because in my opinion nothing in the IT / Computer world works I've come to dislike people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg because nothing they do is ever right first time. Gates 'windows' packages must be on their hundred and something 'update' and still it doesn't work reliably and is hacked into by the most simple minded of peasants in countries which barely have an education system at all.

But basically as Boesoker said, it will be a small market and a difficult one to enter. For example, in my property I go round once a day with a tool I made which scoops the poop onto a spade and then goes into a flip top bin with a plastic bag inside. It takes about 10 minutes max and I can 'pick up' wherever the stuff is which can be among twigs and small branches, in load of grass cuttings (Waiting to go on the ocmpost) in the corner of a brick patio, and so on. Very rarely is it right in the middle of the lawn and yes there are steps on the paths as well.

The number of 'backyards' as you describe them are surely not that many. As Boesoker asked I will also ask 'Have you got market data on how many there are' does it make a viable market.

The device you are working on will not go anywhere except on a smooth level concrete type area and that is not what a good dog owner has. Admitedly there are bad dog owners who just look on their animal as an accessory to themselves and don't ever let the poor creature off lead or walk in nature and keep it in an apartment and walk it round the block every so often.

So you are hoping that people will pay to have something which will need to be battery operated and therefore keept charged, will recognise obstacles (There is nothing that can do that reliably) will get rid of the collected stuff (not sure how that works but I can see problems there as well)

And all controlled by some computer software which needs decades of testing and use to be reliable.

You and the team are probably excited about working in the automation world but as someone who has had to install and maintain a lot of computer controlled equipment I can tell you that your product will need much more testing and development before it will meet the customers needs and I mean at least 5 years, have you got the financial backing to last that long
Reply With Quote
Beetl
New Member!
Beetl is offline  
Location: Palo Alto, USA
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8
Male 
 
11-03-2017, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Meg View Post
I walk miles every day with my dog, I can just imagine the looks I would get not least from the local sheep and cows with that thing trundling across the fields behind us waiting for my dog to poo .
Yes I imagine that would be quite a sight! We had every bystander and their dog stop by to quiz us about Beetl when we were field testing in a park last year!

No current plans to have the robot follow you on walks yet though.
Reply With Quote
Beetl
New Member!
Beetl is offline  
Location: Palo Alto, USA
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8
Male 
 
11-03-2017, 01:10 AM
Originally Posted by Besoeker View Post
i suppose it is battery powered.
So reliability, range, and recharge time are factors that would need to be taken into account and quantified.
Yes - as a team of experienced cross-discipline engineers we're working hard on tackling these challenges to bring performance up to scratch.

You're right that it's battery powered. It will use computer vision - along with an IMU and wheel odometry to navigate back to its docking station to recharge when it's completed a search routine. More info on range to follow.
Reply With Quote
Beetl
New Member!
Beetl is offline  
Location: Palo Alto, USA
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8
Male 
 
11-03-2017, 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by Losos View Post
I'm having to constrain myself here because in my opinion nothing in the IT / Computer world works I've come to dislike people like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg because nothing they do is ever right first time. Gates 'windows' packages must be on their hundred and something 'update' and still it doesn't work reliably and is hacked into by the most simple minded of peasants in countries which barely have an education system at all.

But basically as Boesoker said, it will be a small market and a difficult one to enter. For example, in my property I go round once a day with a tool I made which scoops the poop onto a spade and then goes into a flip top bin with a plastic bag inside. It takes about 10 minutes max and I can 'pick up' wherever the stuff is which can be among twigs and small branches, in load of grass cuttings (Waiting to go on the ocmpost) in the corner of a brick patio, and so on. Very rarely is it right in the middle of the lawn and yes there are steps on the paths as well.

The number of 'backyards' as you describe them are surely not that many. As Boesoker asked I will also ask 'Have you got market data on how many there are' does it make a viable market.

The device you are working on will not go anywhere except on a smooth level concrete type area and that is not what a good dog owner has. Admitedly there are bad dog owners who just look on their animal as an accessory to themselves and don't ever let the poor creature off lead or walk in nature and keep it in an apartment and walk it round the block every so often.

So you are hoping that people will pay to have something which will need to be battery operated and therefore keept charged, will recognise obstacles (There is nothing that can do that reliably) will get rid of the collected stuff (not sure how that works but I can see problems there as well)

And all controlled by some computer software which needs decades of testing and use to be reliable.

You and the team are probably excited about working in the automation world but as someone who has had to install and maintain a lot of computer controlled equipment I can tell you that your product will need much more testing and development before it will meet the customers needs and I mean at least 5 years, have you got the financial backing to last that long
Thanks for the feedback: you're right in that there are a large number of challenges to be solved. Regarding the terrain, we've tested on a variety of surfaces and inclines - including bark chip, long grass and paving stone ledges. We also relocated to Shenzhen, China for four months last year to rapidly iterate on the mechanical design, working closely with prototyping factories to ensure that Beetl would be able to physically handle itself in the real world - before showing the results off at CES 2017.

I agree that the software side has been an equally important workstream. Beetl's machine learning algorithms will be continuously refined in the cloud, with collective learning allowing for one machine to learn from the mistakes of another, both while we conduct our extensive field trials and beyond. The other beauty of cloud processing is that the units don't need to ship with an expensive GPU which would push the prices prohibitively high, and the processing power can be shared by more than one unit.

The challenge of the obstacle avoidance is definitely an area there has been great progress on as well in recent years; our primary technique uses computer vision for this; more details yet to be revealed.

As for poop disposal - we have developed an in-ground composting system for this with the objective of minimising any odours whilst keeping the robot clean. Compostable paper "jaws" serve as a barrier between Beetl and the poop, which then accelerates the waste breakdown once thrown into the composting unit.

Keep the comments and questions coming - happy to answer and take your feedback on board!

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
Besoeker
Dogsey Veteran
Besoeker is offline  
Location: Dunstable UK
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,957
Male 
 
11-03-2017, 05:29 AM
Originally Posted by Beetl View Post
Yes - as a team of experienced cross-discipline engineers we're working hard on tackling these challenges to bring performance up to scratch.

You're right that it's battery powered. It will use computer vision - along with an IMU and wheel odometry to navigate back to its docking station to recharge when it's completed a search routine. More info on range to follow.
Sounds a bit like our Roomba vacuum cleaner - with the same limitations.

I'm sure you can make it work in the environment you envisage. I'm less optimistic about the commercial viability given the limited customer base.

As a group of engineers I'm sure you will each take something technical from the project. And maybe something about the hard, harsh business world.

I wish you, your team members, and the project well.
Reply With Quote
Losos
Fondly Remembered
Losos is offline  
Location: Suffolk, England
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,529
Male 
 
11-03-2017, 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by Beetl View Post
The challenge of the obstacle avoidance is definitely an area there has been great progress on as well in recent years; our primary technique uses computer vision for this; more details yet to be revealed.
Wonderful to see the optimism of youth comming through here If you don't try you don't progress

The human vision systerm is not a five minute wonder, it has developed over thousands (maybe millions) of years. I can't help feeling that 'computer vision' has a way to go, yes great progress in recent years but relevant to what

What I mean by that is that 20 years ago there were NO computer vision systems, so what we have now probably do look good and we can marvel at the prospect of driverless cars BUT I'm an old sceptic (operative word being old here ) and my eyes have lasted me well and I am extremely nervous about handing over my vision to a computer.

Anyway, good luck with your project, as Boesoker says it's a cold hard world when it comes to making money from inventions 'tho I readily admit the Americans seem a lot better at it than us Brits.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Taking the robot dog for a walk Meg Dog News 0 10-02-2015 09:15 PM
IF you don't pick up your poop ! samson13 General Dog Chat 0 15-02-2012 05:33 PM
Chat to a robot! Steve Off-topic Chat 15 12-09-2005 10:28 PM

© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top