I think what is being discussed now was the point of the thread, which bits of what he does should be cherry picked. Clearly there will be people that hang on his every word,that's life unfortunately, I don't think he's cruel, but at the same time don't like some of his methods, and think some are very unnesasary, especially shock collars.

I think what you are seeing as unnessesary I would call cruel, I have a soft soppy girl who would die if I tried a shock collar on her she dissolves into herself if anyone so much as shouts. She needs kindness and that is what we show her. Duncan needs more structure and we use food a lot with him but the idea of smacking him even when he is at his worse just makes me want to cry. I wouldn't have dogs if I felt that was what they needed.

When I first had a dog Barabra Woodhouse was popular I put a choke chain collar on Benny and regret that to this day I have evolved into only using harnesses never collars as they are kinder and seen only an improvement in how my dogs walk. Kindness can win the day but it takes time no instant results.

Wow, thanks

I'm not going, I just think with emotions and feelings running so high on this subject it has become pointless, and very unballanced.

Nobody is all bad, nobody is all good. People do bad things and people do good things.
Is somebody a bad person because they once did something bad, No of course not, they are just human. Who among us has no regrets?

Now look what you have done, you got me posting on a CM thread again

I think most people, when they do bad things do so because at that point in their life they didn't know better - and that's completely normal, and part of maturing as and becoming a better person.

But when people continue to do bad things (especially when they have been shown/proven to be bad by others) that's when I would consider them a bad person. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case with CM - he even has the cheek to deny the punches are punches when it is as clear as daylight to everyone else (ref AT interview).

Nice to see you hanging around - we often have debates that (can sometimes) get a little heated but we remain friends and civil at the end of it

Something you will learn, when ever a CM thread comes along, it will always go the way this one has, and that due to it being a highly emotive subject, and on this site at least, will always be balanced or unbalanced depending on your viewpoint.

Its simply down to the fact, that we are a dog lovers site and as such hate to see injustice or abusive treatment of dogs.

That`s true, but when the bad outweighs the good then any good said person may do is lost under the weight of ALL the badness.

Good to have you back!

CM is a freaking god here and I've been ridiculed soooo many times for suggesting alternative methods that I've pretty much given up. Honestly, so many people are fanatical about him and his methods it's unbelievable. EVERYTHING is about dominance and showing them who's boss. Dog not eating? Don't worry about seeing a vet, it's not eating coz it knows it can control you that way, just show it who's boss with an alpha roll or two! Separation anxiety? It's not anxiety at all, it's the dog trying to control where it's pack goes and when, just show it who's boss. Dog pulls on leash? Guess what? It's coz it's dominant! Dog won't lie down on the cold concrete? Yup, it's dominant!

Thats Germany for ya! Sorry my best friend is German but even he admits to their dominance

I would suggest you ask those fanatics, how many times he asks for a a Vet check. I would suggest.. None!
He never seems to worry wether there is a medical problem, first!!

These are almost all British people though. And even stranger, they're all women!