That is a big assumption isn't it???? With a media machine like his and lawyers like his? Don't think I agree with that at all.

Yes, I would feel exactly the same & I would be claiming compensation.

According to reports (& thats the best we can go by as none of us were actually there), it was the owners personal dog trainer that was using the facilities & that the dog was not left alone so with this in mind I consider it was an accident & not neglect, whether on the part of the owners PT or CM's staff. No one has ever accused Mike Tyson of being a bad father or neglecting his children after the terrible accident that killed his daughter now have they?

Mike Tyson is a convicted rapist and in my opinion should never have been allowed to breed in the first place. Can't believe that any woman would want a rapist as a father to her children but there we are, celebrity rules.
Becky

Off topic posts deleted, please stay on topic

Geez ! Last time I came on here we were on page 51 I think - now up to 91!

I hope this isn't going too off thread, but I just wanted to give a good example of a dog who has been Cesar-ed, my boy Tai, a rescue Mal cross Sibe, as you know. Not the most obedient of breeds, very intelligent, wilful, strong minded. Suffers from dreadful sep anxiety, but thanks to CM, he is an obedient, well behaved boy.

We went to stay with my parents this weekend to help them host an award presentation at their house. Because of the weather, this had to be moved indoors. About 30 elderly people, all strangers, were fed and watered after the presentation. A buffet meal was laid out with drinks in the dining room, and several of the more disabled old folk were sitting on chairs and sofas in the sitting room. Lots of noise, hot atmosphere, and people coming and going. OH wanted to put Tai in the car as we had no idea how he would cope with all this to-ing, fro-ing, his owners being totally distracted etc. etc., but my mum insisted on him staying with us, if necessary on the lead.

I started off by asking if anyone had any objection to the dog, was scared of big dogs etc. etc., and everyone assured me he was absolutely fine. So I thought I would keep him off the lead. He was brilliant. He kept looking to OH and I for guidance, but when I indicated to him to sit from across the crowded room during the presentations, he sat. I nearly passed out, as he is not normally this obedient!! When us mobile humans moved into the dining room and I was helping serve people with food and drinks, he was told to lie down outside the dining room, which he did. He could see me through the open door, but he remained lying down, and when I had to leave to go down to the kitchen to get further supplies, he did not move, he was absolutely brilliant. As it happened, there was a vet there who works with horses, as well as being into dog obedience training, and he was very impressed with the level of control I had over Tai with no sound. I could hardly bellow "Sit" at him, or tsst or "oi" him during the speeches. The noisiest thing I did was to snap my fingers to get his attention.

This is why I am a fan of Cesar Millan. I had total control of my dog across a crowded room, using my eyes and fingers, and then outside the dining room, my voice to tell him to lie down and stay.

I would have found this impossible to do in these circumstances with treats, or clickers, or frankly anything else that I can think of. Everyone commented to me on what an obedient and well behaved dog he was ... especially the obedience trainer. I didn't have a chance to talk to him about CM, as we were gassing so much about horses, but he was totally entranced with the dog's level of obedience, bearing in mind the breeding, and the fact the dog is a rescue and we have only had him a year.

If I needed any more proof of Cesar's Way, then I certainly received it over the weekend. The dog was just a star. he even was introduced to cows for the first time and behaved impeccably!

Hey Gnasher, I really enjoyed that post. You must be so proud of your lovely boy!!!! Definitely good for the CM debate.

Lovely story Gnasher and I'm not surprised you were so proud of your boy.

I sit on the fence with the CM debate - I can see good and bad. However, just as I think that some people (possibly willfully) misunderstand what Cesar is about, I also think some things you've said seen to imply that you don't properly understand the positive training methods used by others.

Clicker and treat training is used while the dog is learning. Once the dog understands what you want, those who clicker train don't need to carry a clicker around with them! Similarly with treats - some people will carry on giving treats (usually randomly) others pretty much stop once the particular 'trick' or skill is learned. So somebody with a dog trained in a different manner would still be able to achieve the same results...and there is every chance that you would have been able to as well.

Thanks CC and Hali for your kind comments. I AM very proud of him, but I take your points about the clicker and the treats.

I choose to stick with CM though because it is all hands free - I didn't and don't need to have to remember any gadgets or rewards!

You really did need to see it to believe it. It was noisy, very hot, and frequently Tai would have lost sight of me, OH or both of us, but remained cool and calm and obedient. I was incredibly impressed, I really thought I was going to have to keep him on the lead at the very best, if not put him in the car.

gnasher, i am glad your boy was so good

but you should be proud of yourself too, it was your training, not cm

i have never seen cm teach a sit, down or a stay

i am sorry but i totaly disasagre that these methods cannot be acheived with clicker training

i am a positive trainer and i hardly ever have treats on me, for training something new sure, for a training class sure, sometimes randomly when i am on a walk

but you dont need gadgets to be rewarding, rewards can be a smile, a good boy, a pat on the head, getting to run and play in the park, geting to walk forward or leave the house, i could go on but i am sure you get the point, and i am sure you dom trainers reward lots more than you think you do

I am sure you are proud of your boy, and the level of training you have achieved.

But not sure why you think, that same level could not be achieved by other methods.


I have two Boxers, and I can tell you both of mine would be equally as obedient in such circumstances... without a CM method being put into place.

Clickers and treats are tools to be used to condition a dog to a basic understanding of what you are asking from them.

Where does it say , you will ALWAYS have to rely on these tools for any future obedience.


The Milan "tssst " and "oi" are tools, albeit verbal ones.. they are used to condition the dog to what you are asking.... and as you say... when said dog learns and understands what you are asking of them, you no longer may need to "oi" or "tssst" him any more.....

So reaching a level of control where you can be "hands free" can come with any form of methods used, even positive ones...