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Location: Derbyshire.....the walking county
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,982
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09-02-2010, 11:30 AM
he didnt know what it was for
not all entire dogs are sex pests and i do believe its the bitch owner that holds the responsibility for keeping her safe when out.
i would not keep Hector on a lead because of a bitch in season. i have no reason too entire or not!
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Location: Blackpool, UK
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,045
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09-02-2010, 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by hectorsmum 
before Hector was done, he was off lead and we came across a in season bitch who he had a good sniff of, and she in return lifted her tail.......and what did he do .......... absolutly nothing
he didnt know what it was for
not all entire dogs are sex pests and i do believe its the bitch owner that holds the responsibility for keeping her safe when out.
i would not keep Hector on a lead because of a bitch in season. i have no reason too entire or not!
Anyway that's all hypothetical, as I walk my dogs where we are unlikely to bump into anyone at all.
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Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
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09-02-2010, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Loki's mum
Totally agree - the responsibility lies with the bitch owner. When my girl is in season she is stuck to me like glue 24/7. If she got mated accidentally it would be MY fault, no one elses. If my boy tied with a bitch whilst out on a walk it would be the bitch owner's fault.
Anyway that's all hypothetical, as I walk my dogs where we are unlikely to bump into anyone at all.
And with the male getting a bitch pregnant out on a walk, isnt it a bit of 50/50, you need an entire male to impregnant a female, if the boy was desexed then it can't happen
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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09-02-2010, 11:53 AM
Both should be trained.
Some dogs---labs in particular it seems---are difficulty when entire. However many gamekeepers etc keep and work entire dogs and have bitches around.
For the average owner who doesn't train to that standard it is better to neuter----but not on to tell the rest of the dog owning world what they should do!
rune
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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09-02-2010, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear
Where did I say that? considering I have a dog who doesn’t get let off lead in the park, and is on a long line, I wouldn’t say that!!
but I think a dog that is driven by testosterone is no guarantee! Yes some dogs may have good recall, and it may be good around some in season bitches, no one can guarantee they will always have the reaction!!
i personally think all dogs, who wont be bred from, should be spayed/neutered. any dog i have had or will have, will be neutered or spayed. too many dogs die every day through overpopulation, and unless a dog is spayed/neutered then there is always a chance of them breeding an unplanned litter and making the problem worse. even the most responsible people could have their dog breeding a litter. spaying and neutering are the only way to 100% make sure that cannot happen. i personally, think that any entire dog should be kept onlead all the time.
No dog can guarantee a 100% recall IMO, but having been in a situation with entire bitches who are in season, and the fact he lives with one, has made me realise that he is capable of self control.
I used to be of the same opinion as you -but I learnt more about dogs and yes - I have worked in a rescue environment and am well aware of the issues of rescued dogs....but I also deal with behaviour issues in dogs..
My opinion with Gabe, is that the mental harm will outweigh the physical benefits if he is neutered. I HAVE to take that into consideration as well. He is a big dog and he has a fantastic temperament, I do not want to muck that up.
It is different with a dog.
Originally Posted by Emrad
I don't get the 'if it ain't broken don't fix it' thoughts, it is not about fixing a problem, it is about ensuring there is no possiblity of your dog reproducing, to me it is worth it, I get if people are wanting to breed or keeping their options open. With Scratch there were other reasons I chose to as well.
I don't think you can guarantee 100% it won't happen, and it is not necessarily a reflection of the dog owner, it is just that there is the possiblity, you can reduce the chances but not rule it out entirely.
I know there are responsible entire dog owners out there but there are so many ones that aren't and I wouldn't want to have to worry everytime I went out that there are foolish owners out there with their dogs or roaming free dogs.
Maybe it is different depending on where you live?
For the record I guess I should say Jed is entire (it is not my decision, otherwise he would be) and I have limited control over that.
Originally Posted by spot
Now that I find offensive! You think those of us who do neuter/spey wouldnt care if our dogs died?
Just as a matter of interest would anyone own up on here if they had had an accidental mating?
My neutered male has been tied with 3 bitches....I assume that his operation has worked as no pups have ever been produced from that....but unless you do test there is no way to be 100% that the operation has been 100%.
Originally Posted by labradork
The different being that neutered dogs ain't gonna make babies and add more unwanted dogs to the world.
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Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
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09-02-2010, 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by Loki's mum
Totally agree - the responsibility lies with the bitch owner. When my girl is in season she is stuck to me like glue 24/7. If she got mated accidentally it would be MY fault, no one elses. If my boy tied with a bitch whilst out on a walk it would be the bitch owner's fault.
Anyway that's all hypothetical, as I walk my dogs where we are unlikely to bump into anyone at all.
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Location: Blackpool, UK
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,045
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09-02-2010, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by Emrad
Does that mean your girl is on lead?
And with the male getting a bitch pregnant out on a walk, isnt it a bit of 50/50, you need an entire male to impregnant a female, if the boy was desexed then it can't happen
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Location: Blackpool, UK
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,045
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09-02-2010, 12:19 PM
Originally Posted by labradork
So what about if the bitch is on lead? is it still the bitch owners fault if your dog is off lead and theirs is on lead? as you say though, that is all hypothetical because entire dogs can always be called away from in seasons bitches with no trouble.
Of course Dandy wouldn't come away from an in season bitch, but when we are walking where other people and dogs are he's on a long line anyway.
Some people are forgetting that the bitch will only stand for a very brief part of her season. Most unwanted litters come from people who own both sexes and don't seperate them, not from people who are just walking their dogs.
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Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
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09-02-2010, 12:19 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
This statment - which is your personal view - suggests that because my dog is entire he should be kept on the lead...you are implying that the training I have done with him is not enough to be able to call him away from a situation.
No dog can guarantee a 100% recall IMO, but having been in a situation with entire bitches who are in season, and the fact he lives with one, has made me realise that he is capable of self control.
I used to be of the same opinion as you -but I learnt more about dogs and yes - I have worked in a rescue environment and am well aware of the issues of rescued dogs....but I also deal with behaviour issues in dogs..
My opinion with Gabe, is that the mental harm will outweigh the physical benefits if he is neutered. I HAVE to take that into consideration as well. He is a big dog and he has a fantastic temperament, I do not want to muck that up.
I would always have a bitch speyed, after a first season, as I feel the health risks of an entire bitch are too high.
It is different with a dog.
Again....I say, by trying to 'fix' the problem you can create issues. everyone seems to be ignoring that point
I think people have in the past - I do not see why that would be different now.
My neutered male has been tied with 3 bitches....I assume that his operation has worked as no pups have ever been produced from that....but unless you do test there is no way to be 100% that the operation has been 100%.
There is less chance....but it ain't a guarantee
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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09-02-2010, 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by labradork
What is not a guarantee? that if the testicles are removed there is still no guarantee that they cannot sire offspring?
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