No worries, but please please sign the petition if you have not already:

http://manytearsrescue.webs.com/dogslookingforhomes.htm

In inexperienced hands on a VERY rare occasion. You have absolutely no proof at all to suggest this is the case here.

No i dont have the proof.
Lets be realistic though, you need extensive knowledge of skull shapes in different breeds of dogs to use a bolt gun on a cat or dog, the rspca themselves are saying that the dogs were violent and had to be held with a pole, so how on earth would one officer hold down aggresive dog's, 10 times and shoot them accuratly?

The bolt gun does not kill it is a stunning instrument hence the need to pithe!

I took this from the compassion in world farming web site, i hope that it will show how difficult captive bolting is, even for those who do it every day to a very large animal.

[COLOR="Red"]2.9 Captive Bolt Stunning of Cattle
In their 1984 report the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC) stressed that the
major cause of ineffective captive bolt stunning is incorrect positioning of the bolt.
FAWC visited a number of slaughterhouses and concluded that there were far too
many cases where penetration had not been at or near the correct position. They
added that they saw evidence of a considerable number of double shots.
A later survey visited 27 commercial abattoirs (Daly & Whittington, 1990). This
survey found that 6.6% of cattle “showed evidence of being less than fully effectively
stunned.” The authors expressed the view that the overall incidence of 6.6% poor
stunning “clearly represents a disturbingly high figure”. In 2.6% of cases the shot was
so poorly applied that the animal had to be stunned a second time, with 0.2%
requiring a third stun. The survey concluded that “The poor stunning could be
attributed to both inaccurately aimed shots and to low captive bolt speeds”. 40.5% of
the animals in the survey were shot in a position more than 3 cm. from the ideal
position, 20.9% were shot over 4 cm. from the ideal position, with 8% being shot
more than 5 cm. from that position.
Daly & Whittington attributed too low bolt speeds to wear and inadequate
maintenance of the pistol. Furthermore, 15% of the abattoirs surveyed used cartridges
of lower strength than recommended by the manufacturers, and those abattoirs had a
significantly higher incidence of poor stunning.
CIWF Trust urges MAFF to carry out an independent survey to establish whether the
efficacy of captive bolt stunning has improved in recent years.
[COLOR]

Are you getting confused with the captive bolt and the Captive bolt pistol? I think you are. there are retractable ones and those that are not, the "bolt" is a stunner for slaughter animals, they use a pistol in the field.

Of course a dog skull is far smaller and weaker than that os cattle so the damage would be lethal and very quick.

Not at all, im just trying to show how even in proffesional hands all captive bolt guns are not simple and easy to use effectively. both guns are stunners, both need to pithe or bleed after to kill the animal.

The issue with the dog skull is not its strength but its shape, that makes it so difficult to stun with a bolt gun.

Im sorry thats not true at all. If you consider the size of the bolt and the size of a dogs skull in comparison to Cattle, the damage is lethal and immediate with a dog. Whilst I dont agree at all with what the RSPCA did (rarely do!) I think you are feeding hype by suggesting things that just arent true.

I spoke to my friend last night, she has 30yrs experience in the slaughterhouse trade, she says that simply put, the bolt would kill a dog instantly, whatever size, when used correctly. I tend to believe her as she has frequently used them in the past, so she is qualified to make a judgement as least based on that. The problem I have with your posts, is that you "assume" or "think" without finding out for certain, this is what will ultimately lose support. There is NO evidence at all to suggest that the RSPCA wrongly handled the bolt gun, nor that ANY of those dogs suffered as a result.

Has your friend shot a dog then? and why can i not make an intelligent judgement, based on facts?. does your friend pithe or cut throats and if they are already dead why? and does she agree or not that its a stunning instrument?

At the end of the day your dealing with animals, they move, get frightened, so there will always be error and as most studies you will find looking at the slaughter of animals, there is a lot of error (which is why i put up my earlier post).
Im sorry but how can one person handle 10 aggressive dogs, remember he is also a stranger to them on a pole which is going to cause even more stress & aggression and then use a bolt gun in the correct way?
and why would he then pithe them if they were dead?

Im glad to say that the cause is actually gaining support and everything written is accurate and true. Its sad that this thread is now detracting from that.

I would encourage anyone, just to do a bit of searching on the net, to see plenty of evidence of Bolt guns, their uses and their results.


A few facts that might help people see the cruelty that took place:

* Definition of pithing = A wire or polypropylene rod is inserted through the hole in the head made by gunshot or penetrating captive bolt. The rod is pushed into the brain and slid back and forth and rotated to cause maximum damage to the brain and upper spinal cord.

Captive bolt
Although widely used and accepted as a stunning procedure for the slaughter of large livestock species, this method is generally considered inappropriate for dogs and cats (European Food Safety Authority, 2005). The penetrative captive bolt pistol must be placed in contact with the animal’s skull and precise positioning is essential so that the bolt penetrates the correct area of the brain first time. Animals must be adequately restrained so that the head remains steady (Carding, 1977; Dennis et al., 1988; Beaver et al., 2001), which makes this method particularly difficult with fearful and aggressive dogs and cats (Carding, 1977). Furthermore, the conformational differences between the skulls of individuals and breeds of dogs increase the risk of a mis-stun. The principle skull types are dolichocephalic (long, narrow head), brachycephalic (short, wide heads) and mesaticephalic (medium proportions). Use of a captive bolt may be aesthetically unpleasant to the operator, especially as further measures are necessary (e.g. pithing or exsanguination) to ensure death (Beaver et al., 2001). The bleeding that occurs after penetration of the skull and after further pithing* creates a hazard for the operator, due to the risk of coming into contact with blood and brain matter. This risk may be of particular concern in rabies-endemic areas. As there is a high risk of mis-stunning through inadequate use of the penetrating captive bolt, and hence causing pain and distress, WSPA considers this an unacceptable method for the euthanasia of dogs and cats.

The latest update from many tears rescue:

4-12-09
MORE RSPCA CENSORHIP AND STILL HIDING THE TRUTH FROM THEIR UNKNOWING SUPPORTERS

I finally got a reply for my letter to Mark Watts the other day. Basically - the same things they have been saying all along and no answers to my specific questions. I was annoyed but not really surprised as I now know how they operate and respond to bad press.

Back when the story of the killing 10 dogs by the RSPCA became public knowledge, I became a fan of their [a social network] site so that I could see how they officially responded to questions about this incident. There were many people outraged and they kept updating the site with anti RSPCA posts. Needless to say the RSPCA began to censor postings and we saw all people questioning them barred from posting and negative posts removed. They then suddenly came up with a set of [a social network] moderation rules and have been keeping anyone who questions them from posting on their forum. After being flogged off by Mr. Watts, I gave it alot of careful thought and decided I would try to post something on their site for the first time. I looked over their rules which are clearly posted as:

We welcome your comments and want to encourage debate. Please note that you are individually responsible for the content of your comments.

We want all our users to be able to express their opinions freely and enter into informed debate and discussion. Whilst we want this to be an open and honest forum we also want posts to be courteous and to not cause offence, therefore we reserve the right to delete any of the following:

• violent, obscene, profane, hateful, or racist posts, links or images
• comments that threaten or defame any person or organisation
• solicitations, advertisements, or endorsements of any financial, commercial or not-for-profit organisations.
• comments that suggest or encourage illegal activity
• multiple successive off-topic posts by a single user
• repetitive posts copied and pasted or duplicated by single or multiple users



Then I posted the following- not on their wall section, but in the discussion section and only under under the "Answers to recent questions about 10 german shepherd dogs" posting. Note- I did this under my own name, I did not try to pretend to be someone else.

We all accept that The RSPCA may have to euthanise dogs
We also accept that the RSPCA feels that a captive bolt if used properly, by their highly skilled and trained inspectors is humane- But after learning the truth, some of us choose to disagree with them- why?

The RSPCA have reluctantly admitted they shot some dogs, but they have only told part of the story- What about the rest of the killing process?

Both DEFRA and the HSA maintain that the CBG is not a humane killer, but only a stunner- What they do not want everyone to know is that after shooting the dogs with a CBG they then have to stick a rod into the hole made by the gun and into the brain to kill the dog.

This was not killing an injured animal in an emergency roadside situation. They went there knowing they were going to kill 10 dogs. They already had decided they were too aggressive to rehome, but going there to "euthanise" them, they did not take a Vet or plan on sedating them- they took a Captive Bolt Gun and screwdriver.

This is what they do not want to admit- they dragged each dog out on a pole, shot it, then stuck a screwdriver into it's brain to kill it.

We won't even debate weather the inspector really knows exactly where on the skull of this breed of dog to place the gun to ensure a proper stun, or if he knows where to place the second shot in case the dog jerked and he had to reshoot the dog. We won't argue with them about weather the inspector pithed the dogs during the tonic stage or if the inspector really knows the signs of effective stunning. We won't ask if there was blood and brain matter on the gun, the screw driver, or the ground so that even if the first dog or two did not know what was happening, the others could smell the death and fear.

We will not argue any of this with the RSPCA- They obviously feel that they acted appropriately.

We simply feel that this entire method of killing is unacceptable for use on domestic pets. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but please RSPCA if you are going to do this at least be honest.

If anyone ever needs to have their old or injured dog euthanised, how many Vets would use a bolt gun and screwdriver?- Even if your dog was aggressive towards the Vet they would not use use these slaughter house tools in the name of Euthanasia.


WARNING- THIS VIDEO DOES SHOW ANIMALS BEING SHOT AND PITHED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWrcZKOzs4


YOU GUESSED IT- THEY REMOVED MY POST

AND NOW I HAVE BEEN BLOCKED FROM POSTING ON THEIR FORUM.

THEY DO NOT WANT TO TELL THE TRUTH- BUT RSPCA BE AWARE, I WILL CONTINUE TO TELL EVERYONE WILLING TO LISTEN !

Bill

Im amazed you NEED to ask why slaughter animals have their throats cut, thats enough for me, you have demonstrated your ignorance again.


One thing, show me where the RSPCA stated they pithed them. Even if you can, why do you have a problem with this if you say it kills them? Contradictory and silly!!

And again, show me where this was not done correctly, I dont seem to be able to find it.