Firstly, the subject of Chis on this thread is as relevant as they were when you discussed them on a thread about the cropping of Dobermans ears. So let's not be a hypocrite again. If you can go OT, then so can I...........

My point is that now you are backtracking and saying that the breed just needs attention but that wasn't what you were saying. Not for the first time, you brought Chis into a subject in an adverse way (nothing to do with the thread that you did this on) and went on about Chis in general. If you look at the better bred Chis (like mine and millions of others out there) you won't find the problems but you will always get breeders that breed for their own ends, whether it's to get the shortest muzzle for the show ring or some scum bag wanting to fund their holiday to Spain from a litter of poorly bred Chis.

I am happy to stop going OT now that I've made my point and hopefully, the next time we disagree on another thread, you don't bring Chis into it in a totally unrelated topic and also in a misleading way.

I don't like the inference that Chis are unhealthy and several of you did that on an unrelated thread.

I've said all I've got to say................

Sorry Pidge for going OT

How????

the operative word being "unrelated"

Re post ..Post 66, who brought what into the thread

Brick wall and banging head , comes to mind

Derrrrrrrrr..........................Let me spell it out for you, YES I brought Chis into this thread like you brought them into the Doberman - cropped ears thread....................for gawd sakes

Breeding to establish desired traits IS a good thing.

Personally, I am more in favor of establishing work traits and behaviour traits than fixing a certain look...although, I can appreciate that to a certain degree.

However, there is a point where it is ridiculous and dangerous from a genetics standpoint.

I recently read a book on the battle of the Border collie breeders against the AKC.
The breeders didn't want the Border Collie to be admitted to the AKC.
The border collie was a great work dog without having a very narrow physical standard.
Although they looked very different one from the other, they were not at all generic looking.
And there was no obsessive attempt to keep the breed "pure".
Work ability was paramount...this allows for the introduction of new "blood" into the breed...no genetic botteneck is created.

I did not get a regular mutt...because my favorite dog is a golden...and I wanted a low shed dog because of allergies.

Mixing with a poodle added some extra qualies, as well:
Adding more intelligence to the already smart golden...and a little more discretion with small children.

I am proud to be part of the movement to cross breeds...this is a first step in making people aware of the dangers of "pure" breeding.
Just need to loosen up those stud books a little.

The only step that is being made in the movement of cross breeds is to make money.. nothing more nothing less..

But how 'loose' do you go?

Loose enough so that my breed (Boxers) doesn't look anything like a typical Boxer?

Loose enough so that all the traits and features of a Boxer's behaviour are lost or changed?

Cos then I wouldn't have a Boxer, and if I wanted a dog who was not-a-Boxer, then I would get one...

I really do believe that you are exaggerating the problem...both in terms of the numbers of rescue dogs and the number of unprovoked attacks.

I am in contact with so many goldendoodle owners (not as familiar with the labradoodles...there actually may be a significant difference)...
And almost all of them are as thrilled to pieces as I am.

They are only as high energy as a golden.
If you can't take a golden, then you shouldn't get a goldendoodle.
Goldens are super energetic as pups, as are goldendoodles.
People still have to do their research as to the type of dog that would be best for them.

Another issue regarding the rescues:
Did they come from what goldendoodle lovers would consider a knowledgeable breeder?

Do you work your dog, as these crosses can allready be very high energy dogs, although I don't know enough of the golden cross poodle to say enough about them, but if you allready have a high drive dog and then you breed for work without having enough people to home these dogs you could be shooting yourself in the foot to say as there wouldn't be enough people to home them, what happens then, do the pups get culled, or is that what rescues are for?


What happens to all the dogs that people get on this theory that are just like normal dogs with thier coats, or that they are even worse with thier shedding, again do the dogs get culled or is that a rescue case again, it would be a lot safer to get a dog that is allready proven to be hypo allergenic.

Whats a knowledgeable GD breeder..

One, how has the capability of owning a Golden and Poodle.. and allowing them to mate..

OR could it be one of the above, but with added ethics.. like health testing their dog.

Something you seem to consider not that important

You only have to go as far as the genetic scientists recommend ( the scientists who don't have a money relationship with the breed groups).

For example:
Lets' say there was a health problem in Afghan Hounds which was related to a genetic bottleneck (which I don't believe there is)

The breeder groups would try to reduce it by various tests.

A better solution would be to go back to Afghanistan, pull out a bunch of healthy looking dogs (and do some testing)...and breed them with the our Aghans.
They would still look and act like Afghans...but the look would be changed somewhat...perhaps not as gorgeous....but at least they would be saved from the health problem.

But you (generally) can't do such a thing nowadays.
Because all breeding dogs have to be from the existing set of dogs already in the stud book system.