I understand in certain other countries the use of two e collars at a time is not unusual

I am told by a reliable source that Adam has admitted to using two e collars at once on dogs that is why I asked him about it but I failed to get any reply. Of course he doesn't have to reply.

Imagine the effect of two collars on for example a small dog, obviously one collar on full power isn't deemed by some to give a big enough shock, that is why two are used .To me this practice is dog abuse there is no other name for it.

I have seen a number of pictures on the internet of dogs with horrific burns supposedly cause by e collars, some dogs have the impression of the collar burnt into their skin. Some people have queried the integrity of the pictures saying they were not caused by e collars but if a collar malfunctions (I posted about this earlier in the thread) or two are used I can quite see this kind of result happening...


http://maryshouse.us/A_Word_about_Shock_Collars.htm




This was said to be caused by an e collar and remote control confinement system
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/RUFUS.HTM
The details of these and other instances of e collar use which supposedly caused damage are detailed on the internet. I am unable to post them all here but they can be easily located by putting 'shock collar burns' /images into Google. I will leave others to decide on the credibility of these incidents .

but its not meant to be painfull how do people believe the bull

...I guess it depends on your definition of painful..

I can recall my dog even after he has seen the sheep running off.....no e-collar needed. No-one that works their dogs with sheep, have I ever heard of them needing an e-collar, apart from anything pet dogs SHOULD NOT BE IN A FIELD LOOSE WITH SHEEP!

If the owner's timing is bad it is bad. E-collar or clicker, whatever the tool (thats all it is adam) so how on earth do you think that they can use an E-collar!!

You still didnt respond to my questions, mostly written in bold in response to your own posts.

Brierly/wysweig

Positive reinforcment does not start with ONLY a negative punishment. Either a negative punishment, a positive punishment or a negative reinforcer MUST happen BEFORE a positive reinforcement (reward on this forum) can occure, therefor there is no place in operant for a reward (reinforcer) base learning system. Its throughout Skinners works starting with the Behaviour Of Organisms 1938

Adam

Sorry Adam but thats just not right. Have you actually read any books on using positive reinforcement for training (also operant and classical conditioning through positive etc)?

1/2 mark......it is the beginning of an attempt at a reference.....

Is that the same tramp with the bad wig who wrote a challenge to section 4 of the Lincoln study in Aug 09 and resulted in Prof Mills having to contact DEFRA to explain he did not know enough about e-collars to continue the study?



What happened after that? If that’s the same bad wig tramp you mean of course.

Adam

There's a diff between books written to promote a training system and the actual scientific facts.

Adam

Sorry Adam but thats just not right. Have you actually read any books on using positive reinforcement for training (also operant and classical conditioning through positive etc)?

EXACTLY

have you read them or not?