Not quite accurate Ben. He didn't decide that his position would no longer be alpha, it actually WAS no longer alpha. By going away and "abandoning them" in the eyes of the pack, he had effectively failed them, and he is probably quite right when he says he will never get back his original status. Alphas do not do Abandon !

SE's wolves at Combe Martin are very different from pet wolves, you can "tame" a wolf to live in a fully domesticised situation so that you can treat your wolf as a dog, train him, take him for walks, to the pub. There were always be very obvious differences of course, but such an animal is very different from the captive wolves at Combe Martin.

Not sure anyone here actually watched the program! I don't recall SE ever suggesting he was 'the alpha' at all, in fact I seem to recall him saying that he could never be 'the alpha' and that role of leader would fall to one of the wolves. Love him or loathe him, but don't mis quote him!

Sorry to say but you Cannot tame a real wolf to live in a family domestic situation. To think so and suggest so is irresponisble and delusional. Thats why there are wolf dogs, you need a degree of dog genes to gain a degree of domestication, over 50% wolf can be very difficult to handle. You need to differentiate between the 'real thing' and the 'demi wolf'.

I think it is Phil from the Anglian Wolf Trust who quotes someone as saying;'if anyone tells you they have a wolf in their house they either don't have a wolf or don't have a house.'

I did watch the tv programme, but my memory is not brilliant wolfdog! Reminders on here and from OH tell me that he did indeed say that he lost his position in the pack - through his own fault because he went away. His position now is that of Diffuser. So I don't think I have misquoted him. I've got his book upstairs and I think in that he tells us about his lost status as well, although I will have to check on this.

I too have spoken with Phil at Anglian Wolf Trust, and he told me exactly the same thing. However, we went on to discuss how it IS possible to domesticate a wolf PROVIDED YOU TAKE HIM OFF HIS MOTHER AT A VERY YOUNG AGE. This applies to a wild wolf, a captive but "wild" wolf, and a "tame" wolf. It is I'm afraid just not true to say that you cannot domesticate a wolf. It has been done for centuries by the Eskimos and the Inuits (are they the same?), and I am in regular contact with a guy in the States who has a 100% female wolf who was taken off her mother at 2 or 3 weeks, 2 I think it was, and raised as one would raise an ordinary dog. Setting aside the morality of doing such a thing (wolves are very advanced, and I know of a breeder who starts feeding solid food to his wolf crosses well by 3 weeks as they are ready for the introduction of solid food, in addition to that which is regurgitated by mum and dad), it is just not accurate to say it is not possible. Phil himself agrees that it is as long as the pup is taken from mum young enough. Of course, in the UK it would be illegal to have such an animal, although perfectly legal in Northern Ireland.

Most people of course would not have the time or the know-how to raise a pure wolf as a dog. The animal needs intense socialisation, can never be left alone indoors as they are indeed extremely destructive. They will dig up your garden and most likely eat the cat! I am not arguing with that, or the morality or otherwise. I am merely saying that it is absolutely possible to do so.

If you read my post it was about SE claiming to be an 'alpha' in his pack - not losing status.

There are many that believe their wolf-dogs are pure wolves...

He did say he was Alpha before he went away

He was also the one saying he would no longer be alpha before he came back - that was not him observing the interactions of the wolves that was him making a decision on how they would act before he even saw them

- BTW does that mean that alpha people cant go on holiday without their dogs cos they then loose the alpha status??

Gnasher, by your own beliefs that wolves can be trained to some level of domestication by taking them away early from their mother is this not exactly what SE did with the inital group of males??

He did say he was Alpha before he went away

He was also the one saying he would no longer be alpha before he came back - that was not him observing the interactions of the wolves that was him making a decision on how they would act before he even saw them

- BTW does that mean that alpha people cant go on holiday without their dogs cos they then loose the alpha status??

Gnasher, by your own beliefs that wolves can be trained to some level of domestication by taking them away early from their mother is this not exactly what SE did with the inital group of males??

But SE WAS alpha ... it's not a claim, he actually was, went away to the States I believe, came back and rather naturally discovered that he could not just pick up where he left off !

Why would people believe their wolfdogs are pure wolves, when they're not? I would never claim Hal was a pure wolf, he was not a pure wolf either in breeding, looks or behaviour, although nonetheless was very wolfy in behaviour.

Yes it does Ben. IMO a good pack leader would not leave their dog to go on holiday. Had I left Hal for instance whilst I swanned off abroad for a couple of weeks (had it been possible, which it wouldn't have been because he was uncontrollable by anyone else) he would have been devastated by such a thing. It was bad enough when he had to go into the vet for an overnight or longer stay. He would totally ignore us, and/or grumble and growl at us for days afterwards. We just ignored his behaviour and allowed him to "come back to us" in his own time.

In answer to your last question, Ben, I am not sure as I don't recall SE's initial group of males. Where did he get them from, do you know? Were they from a domesticated pack, eg Longleat or Woburn, or were they taken from the wild? Either way he would have had to take them off the mother at a very young age, although his wolves are not of course treated as pets, living in a house, taken for walks and to the local pub ! But this is borne out by the Anglian Wolf Trust as well as every expert in such matters ... wolf cubs must be taken off the mother by 3 weeks latest for any chance of domestication.

He was only an Alpha under HIS interpretation of the idea, he was teaching the wolves what HE felt was right under HIS own ideas and HIS observations.

No-one elses.

“…if it’s how you want to live with your dog I have news that is going to disappoint a lot of people who have striven to reach Alpha status – it all means diddly squat to your dog.” -- John Fisher