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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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07-12-2010, 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley 
Your experience is lacking then Adam. One of your gurus introduced a guy and his dog to remote training. Some time later on the madmans own forum, desperate owner was worried sick because the collar was broken and he couldn't find a replacement quickly with a battery that would last 12-14 hours and would charge in the few hours the dog slept. The desperation of his post was clear. The dog wasn't trained, it was controlled by shock and without it the guy was obviously afraid of his dog.
The forum, like many others the idiot set up was taken down by the forum hosts so I can't link to the post. That's the only pity of it being taken down because it was a very clear message to anyone considering embarking on the route of remote training - DON'T!!
Wonderful!
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Location: North Lanarkshire, Scotland
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 883
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07-12-2010, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star
And once again, that says it all. An apparent quick fix and never mind the consequences.
That is the attitude of a lazy owner/trainer who can't be bothered to/isn't capable of forming a proper relationship with a dog and train it humanely.
God bless the owner who isn't frustrated, eh? But never mind the poor dog.
You know what we do when our dogs dont do something, rather than get frustrated we tend to laugh about it as long as they are safe and enjoying themselves (talking about a training environment). They are not put in a position where they will be unsafe. At the end of the day they are living creatures and have the right to choice and not be put under pain for our conveniance.
It is lazy training, to get instant results with little thought of consequence.
If you dont want to put in the appropriate training dont bring another living creature into your life. I dont think child services would think the same if you put a shock collar around a child neck that you brought into the world, zapping them until they worked out what you wanted.
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Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,985
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07-12-2010, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Learning therory!!!
One reason these competing dogs get so hyped is the frustration of the delayed reward of that lead grab at the end anyway, e.g. obed dogs aren't just highly focused because they love what they are doing, they are highly focused looking and waiting for the reward.
It's the same principle of training by holding back a security dog from a tempting "criminal" before releasing it, to build the aggression (or what you would term the drive), via the frustration of delayed reward - the bite,
Adam
You might want to read up on homeostasis. The internal chemical balance of the body is altered by many things - stress, yes, but also excitement and at the other end of the scale, grief.
I'd love to see Skinners exact wording on this subject, hence my requests for references
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Location: In an English country cowpat
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,810
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07-12-2010, 11:40 PM
There is so much negative opinion online now, that he will have to change his name if he ever wants to get respect, and stop posting on the band of forums he is on.
It stiill does make me wonder if he's a wind up or just dense.... It wouldn't be my way of marketing myself, for sure. If I believed in myself a quarter of the way he thinks he is the big I Am....I'd either get onto a good marketing company and/or spend some dosh on a decent website (or learn to make my own) and some kind of presence, with well made nicely printed flyers and ads put about. Heck I could do that in a week... and I have no training qualifications.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ap2089#p/u
Jacca needs his ears looked at, by the way.
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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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07-12-2010, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by MerlinsMum
"Adam Palmer plc" is on a hiding to nothing.
There is so much negative opinion online now, that he will have to change his name if he ever wants to get respect, and stop posting on the band of forums he is on.
It stiill does make me wonder if he's a wind up or merely slightly dense.... It wouldn't be my way of marketing myself, for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ap2089#p/u
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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08-12-2010, 07:01 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
Learning therory!!!
One reason these competing dogs get so hyped is the frustration of the delayed reward of that lead grab at the end anyway, e.g. obed dogs aren't just highly focused because they love what they are doing, they are highly focused looking and waiting for the reward.
Adam
that is complete rubbish.
Id suggest you get to a show & see for yourself.
A "hypey" ob dog is usually bred that way & trained further to bring out the strong "want"/Drive.
I play, raise drive BEFORE i work my dogs,
If you knew anything about collies, you will understand the joy they get from repitition.
Again please tell me
a. what you know about obedience dogs/obedience comp training
b. how you would use a e collar to get competition style work. Maybe do a vid, just recall, retrieve & Hw to a novice standard would do me, nothing complicated
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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08-12-2010, 12:03 PM
Have you ever used 2 e collars at once on a dog, if so explain the circumstances,
Are you posting on numerous sites in an attempt to promote e collars because you fear the ban in Wales may deter people from using them,
You term yourself as 'a dog trainer', is your prime consideration training a dog to behave in a certain way as quickly as possible rather than taking into account what training is in the best interests of the dog.
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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08-12-2010, 12:09 PM
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,012
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08-12-2010, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
is there any chance of merging the two e-collar threads? Otherwise we have to all go through this again.
... i believe its an attempt to 'spread the e-collar' debate around dogsey ... so if googled it cant be avoided.
