I would do the same as Ian and continue to praise the pup whenever he is chewing one of his own toys.

Throwing the question back to you, what would you do in that situation?

But did he go on to become an operational police dog?

So, in the case of your fire it was a quick fix. As I have said, I haven't used an ecollar myself but do know someone who used one on their boxer who was a dedicated sheep chaser. The collar was on the dog for a week, she pressed the button twice, the dog has never looked at livestock again - this was a year and a half ago.

So, it brings me back to what I said in another post about what works for one, won't necessarily work for another. You need to find what motivates your dog, and also which dogs need aversives to help them learn.

I'm miles behind here, still have 2 pages to read in this very good discussion but wanted to say, I know of an excellent manwork trainer called Geert de Bolster. He trains using only positive reinforcement for the actual manwork, thus showing it can be done at this very high level of control

An acquaintance of mine wh owns a working bred GSD was so riveted by his methods and the recent 3 day workshop he held at LearningaboutDogs in Gloucestershire that she's desperate to continue with him (she does working trials and was in the championships this year) and is looking into getting her dog passported to go to him in Europe once a month!

The dogs at the workshop were dogs and bitches, GSDs and Mals (working bred) and one Aussie shepherd I know a police dog handler who has a working bred Malinois who is using non compulsive methods now, and finding it works very well.

I think folk who are heavily involved in KNPV and Mondioring etc have a tradition of using pack leadership (ie they think dogs try to be dominant so handler must be alpha) and also tend to use prong collars, electric collars and use a lot more force. They tend to stick to their tradition because for them it works, although for someone like me, it's not fair on the dog at all.

I've seen videos of working mals in some of these trials and their body language is often very uncertain - some really are not happy - until the adrenalin kicks in, then it changes. This is of course a bit of a generalisation but I feel it should be said.

There are some working bred Mals being used in Schutzhund who have been trained using positive reinforcement too - basically in their case, they've been totally fixed onto a toy and will do anything for that.

Rambling a bit, sorry, but what I'm trying to say is that in my view if people have the knowledge of learning theory, high drive dogs can be trained without force.

Good idea!!!! :smt002

Just checked in the book - dog and handler were fully operational on Hampstead Heath not sure how long for

Thanks Wysiwyg.

Have to disagree The first dog I trained professionally for someone else was trained only by positive reinforcement & it was a long time ago. She had been very badly treated by a "dog breaker"& I couldn't even touch her to stroke her nor put a collar & lead on her, she was 14 months old when I took her on & in three months we were in the obedience ring competing successfully

She ended up a very well trained dog & we were highly successful in obedience & WT's. I had a brilliant trainer & I still train the same way because it works for all my dogs

I've had GSDs since 1958(although I'm without a GSD at present)& apart from the first one they have all been trained with 100% postive methods & my next one(booked for 2010)will be the same

That's planning for the future! Why the long wait?

Helen

Mainly because he will be coming from Germany on a Pet Passport & by 2010 the qualifying period will be reduced from 6 months from the positive titre test date to the actual titre test date.

This means instead of puppies entering the UK @ 10 months old at the youngest, it will be around 17 weeks.

LOL plus I'm getting another BC in late 2007/early 2008 & I don't like having dogs too close together