Thats a first for me, 18yrs of boarding them and LOTS of them, smaller environment, close walls, and never a single Lab with a tail hurt at all. Weird that. Had a few Boxers with split tails, a Greyhound, a Dalmatian, and a couple Spaniels.

As LabradorK said, they "point" only, not hunt through cover, nor retrieve.

in all my years as a vn..it has been most commonly labs that have needed partial tail amps for wagging them against things..followed bu self mutilating Dalis lol

Weird that indeed I guess

It is sad that them being so happy can hurt themselves - but I bet everyone who has been wagged into by a happy lab can see how they can injure themselves - sore!!

aww poor dals, not many around here - do they suffer bordom or stress?

Lovely full tails???? I tell you what, the next time Oscar my full tailed Wire Vizsla is screaming in agony because he's ended up with dead tail after a spell hunting for game I'll give you a ring so you can come and view his "lovely full tail". Doesn't matter that the dog can hardly walk without screaming (and I mean screaming, my parents nearly rang the vets the first time they witnessed it as they thought he was paralysed ), as long as it looks nice, right? And you think those who dock are cruel. Unbelievable.

Totally agree with this. I don't agree with docking for cosmetic purposes, but docking for working purposes, to prevent horrific injuries is necessary. To ban legally docked, fit for function gundogs from the show ring (when the KC bang on about dogs being fit for function) is absurd imo.

Tried to rep you for this but it wouldn't let me. Very good post!

Well given that the Brittany that won BOB is a Full Champion (having won a CoM at a Field Trial) I'd hazard a guess and say it can balance pretty well!

Flat Coats are retrievers, Springers are hunters bred to work in thick cover - two totally different jobs hence why one is docked and the other not!

English Pointers are bred to point Grouse on the moors, working in heather doesn't produce tail injuries. GSPs are bred to hunt, point and retrieve and used for rough shooting in thick cover which often produces tail injuries. If this difference isn't evidence for the logical need for tail docking in certain breeds then I don't know what is! If we were all mutilating maniacs then every hunting or pointing breed would be docked, rather than those who actually needed it!

The vallhund in the pastoral group last night was a natural bob tail (as easily evidenced by the set and small tuft at the back in this case)

Given that this a breed where approximately 50% are born naturally tailess it will never be a case that all dogs are full tailed. Mind you, none that i've ever lived with or met have ever had a problem with communication - with other vallhunds or with any other breed they live/play with.

Noooo - I think Rotties just look weird with a full tail I guess it is probably just that I have seen Rotts for so many years with docked tails that seeing ones with a full tail will take some getting used to, same with Dobes

I don't like docking, I will admit... I can understand why its done, but I still don't like it. I had to have my lovely English Setter have his tail amputated, he had two ops to remove it and he still doesn't like it touched, as setters are meant to have full tails, I also don't like seeing his stubby tail either...
But he is still expressive, he wags his whole backside as well as the stub, so he doesn't need a tail to show how he feels at all (he has a gob for that!! )
I just find it hard that we breed to eradicate certain things, but still working dogs are born with big tails instead of bobtails... Though I appreciate done properly its easier to dock as pups... I just don't like it though, personal choice.

As for Pointers (don't like "English Pointer" and they are KC reg as Pointer ) they were bred to run with greyhounds and whilst most dogs chase, on sighting game, namely rabbit they were bred to stand and 'point' stock still and show where the hounds were to go... they are not HPR's .... though Code would give it a go I am sure.

Sorry if I have already missed the reason why, but could I just ask why you bought a full tailed Vizsla pup if you intended on working him? Also, if he is in real agony after working, would it be better NOT to work him in the first place (as I understand he is a pet, not a working dog??).

Just curious.

I am not strongly for or against docking (probably due to not having docked breeds). However, I do understand the reasons for docking in working gundogs, and find that acceptable. I think you also make a good point about the KC banging on about "fit for function" and then ban docked gundogs from their shows

When they dock puppies nowadays are their little tails still cut off with scissors, or is it done more humanely? It is around 30 years since my GSP, Lizzie, had her first litter, and the pups tails were cut off with scissors with no anaesthetic. I was absolutely horrified, their shrieks will haunt me for ever more. I guess it is this aspect of docking that I hate the most, but I still do not approve in chopping bits off dogs unneccessarily.

I take your point Ripsnorter, and I am terribly sorry for your poor dog, but to give you a scenario, Tai impaled himself on a dead branch a few months ago, he was in terrible pain, and had to have a major op with hospitalisation and may not have survived. However, he still runs through the undergrowth in the woods chasing squirrels, I don't stop him. I guess it is not a very good analogy, but what I saying is that dogs have accidents and injuries the whole time, and I do not believe in chopping puppies tails off just because of "what if". It is very unfortunate that there are cases such as your poor dog, but thankfully they cannot be that common. I do not know of one dog who has ever injured his tail through wagging or in hunting/retrieving incidents, and I must have met thousands of labs, pointers, retrievers, spaniels over the decades, all used for shooting, pointing and retrieving in heavy undergrowth. I don't doubt that these injuries exist, just that they do not justify mutilating little puppies.