that is no surprise comming from you haley no matter what i say you would disagree

True not all dogs do go in the ring but for those who don't the dogs with docked tails will be noticed as the minority as roles will be reversed seeing a dog with a docked tail will look strange because everyone will be used to seeing them with tails.

When we got Bianca (Boxer) she had a tail and people thought she looked strange because she had a tail (this is at the time when lay people were stopped from docking) The same will happen to the ones with docked tails in the future.

I don't think many vets would carry on docking tails for cosmetic purposes because they wouldn't want their practise to be prosecuted for cruelty to animals now that wouldn't look good for any practise to be done for that.

When we spoke to the vet about Bianca splitting her tail he said he would only remove the affect part of the tail (if needed) and not all of it as to remove all of it would be classed as cosmetic and no different to docking so if he was ever to remove part of the tail she would of ended up with half/ 3 quarters one instead.

This is getting side tracked in docking and were not disscussing that.

I wouldn't say describing someones views at OTT are personal, sometimes Hayley when 'bashing' breeds I feel you take things a little too far and many people get/feel insulted, so your discusted with the way Bulldogs are now, thats your opinion and your are entitled to that, it don't mean that everyone has to agree with you there are many breeds I am not totally happy with healthwise and so much more could be done to improve those breeds but sitting here debating them is'nt going to fix or improve them is it? I am perfectly aware that there is an ignore system in place if you feel so insulted by my views why havent you pushed it first? I am willing to listen and take in anyones views, thats where you and me differ slightly because if someone don't agree with you, they are having a 'pop' at you... Well I am not having a pop at you or anyone and I am just as passionate about the Bulldog as I am about the OTB, there's a lot I am not happy with within the Bulldog breed but I still love the breed and there's nothing you could say that would change my mind - there are so, so many lovely examples around right now that are capable of living a healthy and active life I am sure there are many here that could actually back up what I am saying if they have had close contact with this breed when at shows - I am sure many people have had contact with Bulldogs at agility classes, many people that have met these dogs being walked in the park romping around with other dogs. They are not the crippled up things you are certainly making them out to be, you are basing that opinion on possibly a couple of badly bred examples that you have seen. I owned these dogs for a long time, I only ever had the one that struggled due to being badly bred as for others I have owned in the past they were certainly more than capable of giving my other dogs a run for their money and were perfectly happy, healthy active dogs!
There was a time I became very disillusioned with the breed but it does not mean I won't stand their corner if I feel that people are being unfair and judgemental to the breed.

Then one will go to working bred litters-simple.
There are many loopholes, and i'm not going into this with you again-i find it quite ironic how you insist on speying castrating all dogs which is taking something they are born, yet can give them health problems away-when docking is EXACTLY the same yet you are so against that

Well say the puppies were born with hereditary probs is that the standards fault or the breeders fault ?

The kennel Club will register any dog,regardless of breed on its avctivity register,to compete in agility etc...to go on a breed register,both Sire and Dam must be KC reg and of the same breed.The KC will only register cross breeds to go the activity register.
Hayley is quite entitled to an opinion just the same as you or I are,without the need for getting personal.The SBT has had and still has a bad reputation,not helped by idiotic owners,the breed on the whole does not have a bad temperament,where on earth did that come from,the stafford loves human company especially children,very rarely do they attack people.
I do not agree with cross breeding,especially to breed dogs with no tails,it is irresponsible.

I don't see how this could possibly work without producing many unwanted puppies.

It is a similar question to the 'new breeds' question in that you are almost breeding a new breed by crossing two breeds (one with short/no tails) and selectively breeding over a number of generations to breed to type (ie no tails) what would you do with all the 'not to type puppies' .

Ok so it was tried with boxers, now take the number of docked breeds and look how many surplus puppies would have to be bred to achieve the ultimate goal. There are too many unwanted dogs around already.

I think no tails would have to be a result of evolution and being that many thousands of dogs have been bred with docked tails already even from Roman times then clearly evolution has not naturally taken over with shorter tails, after all it took man millions of years to become upright.

Now you are trying to twist my words.

If pups are born with heditary problems the blame souly lies with the breeder for breeding from dogs with heditary problems that shouldn't have produced puppies in the first place.

The Bulldog standard is what has become ruination of the breed that is a well known FACT! Many people would argue with that and in my opinion these dogs need a serious injection of new blood - But to say ALL Bulldogs are unhealthy couch potatoes is wrong to base the opinion that all Bulldogs are cripples I would have expected someone to have at least own one or two at some point that makes their opinions a fact. These are not the only unhealthy breed around, there are more than a few, they are not a breed that stands all on its own in the health stakes. You get a good one, from a reputable breeder this breed can live as long as any other breed with a good quality of life (I know a Bulldog thats 13 years old and still acts like a puppy) theres a lot of care thats involved with looking after these dogs but that care and attention does not make the breed an unhealthy one.
Won't post again in this thread as it's going off topic

I am not trying to twist your words , if indeed it is me your taking things personally with. I agree that if puppies have hereditary probs its down to the breeder...and your right it has been off topic for some time now