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Location: West of Scotland
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,034
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10-11-2008, 05:53 PM
I honestly don't know what more to say to you. It seems to me that you, and your husband, are just not committed to making this crate work for Woody.
Carry on as you wish. I have offered plenty of advice for you to take on board if you wish, as have others.
There appears to be no consistency in anything that you are doing for Woody, and this is probably upsetting him more than the crate itself, even though you might disagree with this. It's no wonder he's not settling. He is getting mixed messages.
Just remember, dogs pick up on our emotions, be aware of that fact at all times.
Do what you like, you aren't even fully trying to make this work, it requires committment, dedicaion and perseverance and none of this is being put in. By the sounds of it, you're trying to prove that a crate is such a horrible, nasty place to be. It's not.
I wish you well, more so Woody.
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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10-11-2008, 05:58 PM
Abit of understanding might have been nice.
I also do not appreciate the implications that what we are doing is harming our dog. That's out of order and unjustified!
I have been very grateful for your help so far, I thought I'd made that quite clear.
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Location: england
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,601
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10-11-2008, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge 
I don't know Catrin. I guess it's because I'm used to (all my life) having a dog that lies by my feet and sleeps in a big open space, in a comfy bed. We've never used a crate with any of our dogs. I'm also very claustrophobic, this might be something to do with my personal fears!? I think I should be allowed to not like it. We bought it to give it a go as it was highly recommended to us and you have to give us a chance to get used to the idea.
Anyway, last night we played with him and tired him out then settled him in for his first night. He howled and scrabbled (worse than his first night here) for about 20 minutes and then went quiet.
The alarm went off at 1.30pm and my husband went down to take him out. When he approached the crate Woody was down on his front legs barking and snarling at him through the crate like nothing I have ever heard before. He let him outside but alll he did was go frantic and bite and snap at my husbands legs and feet. He stayed out there for 15 minutes of this and eventually Woody did a wee and a poo.
When they came back in Woody was absolutely hyper and my husband felt like he couldn't put him back in the crate. So he set him up in the kitchen again. He said he did it because Woody hasn't spent much time in the crate and no wonder he was scared.
Now personally I wanted him to persevere and am cross that he didn't, but Woody's behaviour was concerning me. He doesn't just bark and whimper like other puppies, he gets a crazed look in his eyes and howls in an horrific way!
Now I really need advice. I don't want to give up on the crate until I know we've given it the best shot we can give it. Do we need to just keep putting him in there and locking the door? He already has all his meals in there and we put him in when he's sleepy.
I completely see that you are allowed to not like it but were interested in your reasons for keeping on using it as you seemed very much against the idea. Just because you use a crate in the first few months doesn't mean that the puppy can't turn into a dog that will be able to sleep at your feet etc when it is slightly older.
Like i said before Tonks is now 10 months old and has been sleeping with her crate door open for a number of months now. I didn't put her in the crate everytime she slept as a puppy, but did make sure she went it in at least one a day so that she didn't get used to not being in there.
Not sure what to adivse now. I think apdt training classes would be good as you could get hands on advice. I pressume the snarling and snapping is just a puppy tantrum, they can look very fierce, but you sound as if you need to have someone you has met your dog to be able to feel reassured that you are getting the right advice.
Please do not be tempted to take him to cheaper classes that are not apdt registered as positive methods are really important, especially where you seem to be having a number of issues with the pup.
I hope you find the answers you are looking for.
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Location: n/a
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,459
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10-11-2008, 06:07 PM
I do feel for you, as you sound very sensitive and want to be a good dog mummy. I am sure you are. You just need toughen up a bit on the crate front and let him know who's boss! In the nicest possible way of course. Just give him a few nights and he'll be fine - I'm sure but warn your OH not to give in to him during the night, as this will not help your cause at all! Good luck tonight. Let us know how it goes.
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Location: england
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,601
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10-11-2008, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Pidge
Thanks Catrin. We've booked him into Gwen Baileys Puppy School and can't wait. He really needs to get outside and explore!
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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10-11-2008, 06:11 PM
I totally agree that we haven't toughened up on him and last night was a mistake. My husbands reason is that he felt we hadn't let Woody get used to the idea enough times before shutting him in overnight, but I don't think that would have mattered. I think he was going to howl anyway, we just had to be strong.
Anyway, it's done now, tonight is another night.
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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10-11-2008, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by catrinsparkles
Wonderful, that should be great for you and him and you will be able to get loads of hands on advice. Will you actually be having Gwen Bailey or another trainer?
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Location: england
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,601
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10-11-2008, 06:15 PM
All pups are different. My friend, who is a behaviourist, has had lots of different dog, rescue and non rescue, the last but one pup that he had was a little whippet who had the biggest most violent temper tantrums of any puppy that i have seen.
I used to train him in puppy classes when the behaviourist was teaching and i can't count the number of times that he flew at me in a tantrum, out of frustration and crossness, not because he was goign to turn into an aggressive dog but just because he could not bare to be frustrated. He also used to have the most terrible tantrums when ever he was put in his crate. They persevered, despite the noise, he was angry, rahter than upset....and now he loves his crate and is a really lovely friendly dog. Dog friendly, good with livestock, loves people, obidient etc......so much can be achieved with the right kind methods and perseverence.
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Location: Wiltshire, UK
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,374
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10-11-2008, 06:21 PM
He is incredibly frustrated. If he can't get his own way he whimpers and scrabbles, barking at anything he can't control (such as solid objects; metal, plants etc). He has this crazy "I want to be free to do what I want" attitude. Twice a day we practise this with him by controlling him on the lead (which he hates) and letting him try to get his fav toy/treat and praising him wiith it when he goes calm. It's a very hard exercise but it's very important for him I think.
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