Aversives can be anything you dislike, dislike doesn't have to mean fear. For example you may dislike a certain tv show but you don't fear it.

I don't deny that dogs find the stim aversive, however the level of this aversive is very mild and its very brief in duration. Compare this to a dog wearing a halti for a whole wlak and wnating to rub it off on his legs ect. Thats far more aversive and far longer duration.

You need to watch all the vid, he's assessing the dog. At first he doesn't do any training. Just sees what the dog is like, by the end he;''s done a bit of training and the dog is friendlier to him.

Re abused dogs. I don't feel comfortable letting a dog remain in a long term state of anxiety so I will use the best approach to improving their comfort levels. One of the dogs I worked with was a lurcher who had been burned with cigs and would panic and run round the room whenever anyone was in with her (they'd owned her for six months). I used the e collar similar to the approach in the vid and the dog was relaxed with me and the owner within 45 mins. Prior to this she was gonna be destroyed as had no life at all.

My clients are a real mix. Some just want the best for a dog they've had from puppyhood in terms of training others have a last chance adult. Most are somewhere in between.

Adam

Adam.

Escape/avoidance conditioning is all about fear, this is the science of it. The two learning processes are that the animal learns to fear a stimulus, then once they understand what to do, their behaviour is reinforced by the reduction of fear.

Wys
x

I've never heard that statement before Wyswigy. Sciene tends to steer away from talk of emotions. I think thats your interputation of the training.

Besides I've never seen any evidence of fear in any of the dogs I've trained.

Adam

You used an e collar on an abused dog?!! Are you for real? That is evil...

Why? The dog was terrified of the people who'd rescued her (and anyone else) and had no quality of life, she was going to be pts. I used the e collar at the first level she felt and with in a short time she was relaxed around me and her owners. She was happier, she was willing to eat around us and she went on to have/still has a great life.

The e collar doesn't create a big reaction from the dog its no more uncomfortable than a flea bite. Most importantly for an abused dog the dog doesn't percieve the stim as coming from you. The training makes the dog feel comfortable about you which improves the dogs life. I consider that hugely preferable to letting the dog be scared for months/years or ptsing.

Adam

Because anyone who takes on a dog that has been abused, will be prepared to put in the hard work to putting that dog back on the road to recovery, no matter how long it takes or how hard it is, they would not be willing to take the short, evil, quick fix option...
I don't believe you mate, you seem to have trained all breeds of dogs, with allsorts of history... you are either a troll, an egotist or a pleb!

They had the dog six months all ready. In that time she showed no improvements. Just scared anytime people were near her, would only eat/drink at night when no one was around. I think if they'd kept her another six months she would have been just as bad.
Attempts at making friends ect with body language got no were, dog would just try and escape anytime someone was in the same space as her.

I think if you tell people who take on rescues/abused dogs ''your going to have to put up with this for however long it takes'' they won't take the dogs on.
Similarly 100s of dogs are pts every year for easily fixable behaviour problems.

Adam

Yup it is just so sad that there are self styled 'experts' who think its OK to use these evil devices on dogs who deserve time and understanding
and the poor GP fall for it because they are so used to quick fix methods on TV
No wonder dogs are becoming more and more agressive when us humans are devising more elaborate tools to torture them with

If it was just a flea bite it wouldnt work
If it is such a tiny insignificant thing then when do the dogs find it so rewarding when it goes away??

science does talk about emotions

its not all about operant conditioning

oc is but a step in the understanding of dog's, but a step that is fast becoming a hurdle to understanding the dog's inner landscape

If it is such a tiny insignificant thing then when do the dogs find it so rewarding when it goes away??

Because the dog learns its behaviour can make it go away, after all why do dogs scratch at itchy spots? Because they have learned that behaviour makes it go away.

The stims duration is controllable by you so you can reinforce the dog by stopping that stim/flea bite when he does what you want. Obviously you guide the dog into the behaviour so the stim only lasts a 1/1.5 sec.

Adam