Remind me to never come over to your house for Tea!

Here's a link to this study:

http://www.avma.org/avmacollections/obesity_dogs/javma_220_9_1315.pdf

Materials and Methods
Forty-eight Labrador Retrievers from 7 litters were used
in the study, which consisted of a paired feeding design. Dogs
in each litter were paired at 6 weeks of age on the basis of sex
and body weight and assigned at random to 1 of 2 feeding
groups. Beginning at 8 weeks of age, 1 dog in each pair was
fed ad libitum, and the other dog in each pair was fed 75% of
the amount of food that its pair-mate had consumed the previous
day. The same formula was fed to both groups of dogs;
only the quantity provided was different.
When the dogs were 3.25 years old, 2 adjustments were
made to the feeding protocol. All dogs were switched from a
growth formula diet (27% protein content) to an adult formula
diet (21% protein content). In addition, the amount of
food that was fed was reduced and held constant to prevent
insidious development of obesity in the dogs that were fed ad
libitum. The amount offered to the 24 dogs that previously
had been fed ad libitum was calculated by estimating the
ideal body weight for each dog on the basis of skeletal size in
reference to other dogs of the same breed. These dogs then
were fed 62.1 Kcal of metabolizable energy (ME)/kg of estimated
ideal body weight (ie, the estimated maintenance
requirement for large breed dogsa). This group of dogs was
designated as the controlled-feeding group. The remaining
24 dogs each continued to be given 25% less than the amount
fed to their respective pair-mates. This group of dogs was
designated as the restricted-feeding group. Details of the
experimental design and procedures have been described.8-10


This Purina study looked at the same number of dogs as the other but through life. The same initial method was adopted though - with one half being fed an unlimited amount of food, every 15 minutes, for the first three years and the other half being fed 75% of this for the first three years.

So as in the other study, the puppies weren't seriously deprived of food, just fed 25% less than the ones being completely over-fed. It was after three years that they were both fed reduced diets (with the one group being fed 25% less) with a reduction in protein.

The Purina link doesn't contain any dog forum so should be okay to post:

http://www.longliveyourdog.com/twoplus/methodology.aspx

Subjects: Forty-eight Labrador Retriever dogs were paired within their litters according to gender and body weight, and were randomly assigned to either a control or lean-fed group. For the first three years, the control group was fed an unlimited amount of food during 15-minute daily feedings; afterwards they were fed an amount estimated to be the caloric requirement for large breed dogs in “normal” body condition. Each dog in the lean-fed group always received 75 percent of the amount eaten by its paired littermate. All dogs consumed the same diets, which were 100 percent nutritionally complete and balanced (first a puppy formula, then an adult formula) -- only the quantity provided was different.

No I don't think we will but I will try asking the AVMA myself . I have already asked just about every animal welfare organisation in the USA .

[QUOTE=Labman;1911706]There was a careful scientific study study done a few years ago and published in the JAVMA. It eliminated all doubt that dogs kept lean live longer, active lives. It is also well proven that large breed puppies have fewer joint problems when kept lean. This is not based on one person's experience. I am talking proven, scientific fact.

There was an extensive discussion of weight in a recent newsletter from a service dog school.

''Obesity is the number one nutritional disease affecting dogs. It's estimated that 25-45% of dogs in the US are obese. Studies have shown that joint and locomotive problems increase by 57%, circulatory problems by 74%, respiratory problems by 52%, skin problems by 40% and cancer by 50% in animals that are overweight.

Large breed dogs that are overweight also are more prone to developing hip dysplasia. Obesity is especially dangerous for young puppies, as their underdeveloped frame cannot support the extra poundage that it must carry.''

I have been watching some of your posts for a little while now Labman and do have a few concerns about some of the advice you give - you seem to speak as if you are the fount of all knowledge setting yourself up to be an authority on all things canine. It seems to me that you attempt to bombard people with unreferenced statistics - is this an attempt to impress "Jo Bloggs". I was not talking about obesity Labman - you said that you should be able to feel the ribs and see the waistline in young puppies and pups direct from breeders are often too fat - this is what I disagree with. I believe that in America obesity is a huge problem (even bigger than in this country) - but then dogs are often kept and treated differently from dogs in other countries. Obesity is a real problem for humans as well as SOME dogs and yes this should be addressed. With puppies, what I have found with my dogs is that as soon as the "baby" pup stage has passed, there is a period when they are all legs, tails and appear quite slim when they get to be active (and I certainly don't advocate keeping them in cages for extended periods as many Americans seem to do - this in itself leads to serious problems with muscle development, joints, obesity etc. etc. not to mention mental welfare) My vet is certainly NOT out of touch with modern dog care - he is one of the leading vets in this country who specialises in working gundogs. It does certainly seem that Americans manage their dogs differently to many people in England (in fact the attitude often seems at odds with canine welfare) and I am sure we will have to agree to differ. I will continue to feed my pups along guidelines I trust (which is broadly how I would feed my own children as babies). Also, I cannot see how with-holding food and water can achieve any productive end and neither can this be good for any creature. It seems to me to be a very draconian attitude. Thank goodness we are not all the same.

I must say that unles it's raining they do eat their tripe in the yard...outside.