I don't see threatened.
Where is threatened in that?

Or are you paranoid, Adam?

Ah, I see so you aren't a 'cross-over' trainer. I thought it was strange that someone working for years using reward-based methods would turn to physical aversives.

Adam, if the only opinion that matters to you is the dog's, why don't you listen to what they are trying so desperately to tell you. Jacca is screaming at you in that video, but you are ignoring what he is saying.

It would be more stupid to drag out training when charging by the hour. In dog training, word of mouth brings more clients than any form of advertising and if you don't get results in a reasonable time, reputations are tarnished and work dries up which is why it's laughable when accusations of reward-based training taking forever and beyond are so stupid

absolutely PMSL!! as if!
if i were threatened by you, that would imply i think you are a better trainer than me and that i aspire to be like you... not in a million years and not for all the tea in china would i EVER want to be anywhere CLOSE to being the kind of trainer you are!

I was originally anti e collar, physical aversives are unavoidable, btw I know several people who are true cross over trainers/owners!

Adam

how are physical aversives unavoidable?

Ever put a lead on?

Adam

And that's a physical aversive, is it?

I didn't see anybody suggest this. Rupert certainly isn't desperate to get a treat. He'd like the treat and will put in a certain amount of effort to get it but if it's too much effort forget about it.

People are saying that the dogs being shoved and yanked and shocked into doing things look unhappy. Do you honestly not see that? Or do you just not care?

i know adam is going to say that the lead is an aversive as you are stopping the dog from doing what it wants, what he fails to realise (aside from using a lead to give checks) that dogs, AMAZINGLY see the lead as a positive thing, cos lead=walks and walks=fun for dogs!
i have taught my two rotts to walk beautifully on a lead and never once were they checked, we started when they were pups and now a 3 yr old could walk them (not that i would lol)
*ahem* unfortunately cant say the same for my collies, utter laziness on my part!

There you go again Adam. Physical aversives are, indeed, part of life, but why add to that burden by including them in training?

That sort of logic is similar to saying that it's part of life that going out in the cold naturally makes you uncomfortable so to teach you not to do it, the best way is to strip you of warm clothing to teach you to dress appropriately for cold weather in future when it would be just as easily taught by encouraging putting on extra garments to reward compliance by the feeling of warmth.