Or with other people who want to do experiments and breed and breed and breed them.

Well said.

What sort of a rescue allows or even encourages people to foster dogs to breed from for an experiment, or people so niave to leave an intact dog with a bitch on the first night alone. As a fosterer I would never leave new dog on its own with my lot to just get on with it!

Perhaps this is why many reputable rescues will not home to people with intact dogs - its people like this who give rescues a bad name and make them have blanket policies.

well i didnt know GOD had a new name

how dare you use a nervous 'RESCUE' as an experiment to see if some method 'MIGHT' work.

if you spoke to breeders who do raise their pups properly then you would find that 'experiments' are worthless.

what an irresponsible person you are

This is part of your signature....

"I did then what I knew then, when I knew better, I did better!" Well, clearly not!!

Firstly, I have a degree in Chemistry and one in Biochemistry. I have conducted MANY scientific experiments and done primary research.
Although I know very little about breeding dogs from a personal aspect, what I can tell you for sure is that your experiments are by no means scientific. You'd need several hundred pups to monitor over the course of their lifetime and possibly their pups also. Aside from that exceptionally small sample (only 2 dogs producing one litter), what was your control group? Or are you going to now claim it wasn't scientific?

I don't know you but from what I've read so far you seem to contadict yourself a lot and make excuses to justify your mistakes.

I don't know of ANY rescue that would allow their dogs to go without vaccinations to any foster home, nor to a home with an intact dog already there. As you've forced this young bitch ot have a litter without knowing anything about her, that should set alarm bells ringing for any rescue to have little or nothing to do with you.

Of course, if the rexcue you had this bitch from is run by your friend, as you claim, then of course no doubt fo y ou to carry on fostering, your friend must condone your unprofessional, unethical, unscientific, downright cruel animal experiments!

Thanks for your very useful input, and for making stories up along the way (who said I got the dog from any rescue organisation?) (who said she is neurotic or nervous?) (or that she was 'forced' !!!! I have seen many bitches react badly to males that the breeders choose to mate!)

Don't jump to conclusions before knowing the story, this thread wasn't about how the pups came to be, (it is about how they will be) which is why I have been forced to defend myself and my desicions, that I am entirely comfortable with.
(p.s. perhaps you should read about how bitches can be as bad as males at wanting to mate... all my new dogs are in crates, esp ones that I have seen damage their owners house!!)

She certainly doesn't seem stressed by this, infact the opposite. A very very contented mother.
It is one of the best things I have ever done, I am enjoying every new moment (this morning I learned that on their 5th day these pups show the signs of a reflex as adult dogs get when you find the right spot and their back leg starts dancing) some things you can't learn from a book - as any behaviourist knows, hands on is 100% better.

You stood by & watched these bitches being"forced"to be mated then ?

I certainly do not need to look up about bitches being determined to get mated-I am already aware of this through observation of my own entire bitches & dogs(no "accidental"pregnancies here)

She may appear contented(the puppies suckling releases the body's endorphins which is what is calming her not simply the fact that she has given bitch & is "enjoying"being a mother), but you need to think about the effect the litter will have on her physical well being, an immature bitch being drained by having a litter can have a lifelong effect on her.

Best for you perhaps, but not physically for the bitch. Have you been testing the puppies everyday to come to the conclusion that when you tickle them they react ? I've got news for you my puppies(who were cuddled/stroked etc etc from birth)reacted from the moment they were born. I spend hours doing these with every puppy I have bred-also I rear my puppies in an area that my bitches are happy with, where they & the puppies are involved with the household noises etc & the other dogs(being mainly males they keep well away from the puppies)

It seems with your 8 years or so of experience of being a dog owner you wanted to have experience of breeding & observing a litter. What a shame you didn't choose to be a responsible breeder, have ensured all the relevant health tests had been done & both sire & dam being "normal"(one of which cannot be done under the dogs are 2 years of age) or within the limits acceptable for breeding & then bred the litter. Not cheap of course & you could be disappointed like me if one of the health results are not good, but you would be being responsible & not producing puppies from unknown genetic backgrounds & pedigrees simply because you want to experience the joys of breeding & rearing a litter.

As someone who has witnessed the results of poor breeding protocols first hand sadly you fall within the description of an irresponsible breeder.

Good Grief woman, now your implying that it was the bitches fault that she wanted to mate. Anyone with an ounce of common sense and a tad of dog knowledge would know that bitches are as bad as dogs. Hence I'm more convinced than ever that this was deliberate and no accident.
Lets have a look at the FACTS (as provided by you) shall we.
You stated that this bitch is a foster dog. FACT! Hence why people are saying that you got her via a rescue.
She has had 3 homes due to her destructive behaviour as she gets stressed when left alone. FACT! Now you are claiming that she is neither neurotic nor nervous nor stressed.
What evidence do you have, from a scientific point of view, that having a litter is actually calming for a bitch? I can tell you now that is nonsense. The first bitch I mated didn't do calm, she was bonkers as was her daughter who I kept, and despite having all the correct stimuli and socialisation was as highly strung as her mother. I had her and her daughter spayed without mating either of them again as I was not happy with the temperament.
All you've done is bring into the world another litter of pups from parents who's backgrounds are very suspect with no health testing of a breed that needs experienced dog savvy owners when there are very few homes available at the moment and rescue centres are full with dogs who have come from a similar background.
Oh and I'm a fully qualified Laboratory Technician who has been trained to undertake experiments in all 3 sciences!
Becky

Well Jess, that sort of sums it up doesn't it? It's one of the best things YOU have ever done. What about the bitch? This 18 month old, non health tested girl with such severe SA she had already been in and trashed 3 homes. On her first day in a rescue, with someone who apparently knows how to tell when a bitch is in season, she was left close to an entire male...was found tied and then the peron who had 'resuced her' thought it would be interesting to see how she would be when she had the pups and thought she could then do an experiment on the pups.
Shame on you Jess...there is no getting around it. Then you come on here and want to talk about the experiment you are doing with the pups? Oh please.... Why even call it an experiment Jess..it clearly isn't as it isn't controlled...nor is it in any way scientific.

You have really surpassed yourself this time.

Oh my god, I don't even have any words for this. What are you thinking of?? Do you really think that ANYONE is going to take the results of this 'experiment' (I use that term loosely!!) seriously? Puppy farmers and byb won't give a monkeys about their pup's development anyway, and responsible breeders and owners will be repulsed when they know the circumstances under which the 'experiment' was performed, as has been seen in this thread!! Oh wait, I expect you won't be publishing the fact that the bitch was an 18 month old unhealthtested rescue with a history of neurotic behaviour mated on the first night you had her by an unhealthtested dog in the results, will you? I hope the poor bitch and her pups can find better homes than the one their fosterer provided, what a disgrace!

Sadly Jess neither do you, when I knew you were setting up a rescue and continuing wit training and behaviour I hoped time passed would have given you a more rounded and mature outlook - sadly it seems that has not happened, allowing this to happen in the first place is dire enough, not getting her to the vet for the mismate jab is heinous imo, I make no apology for not holding back on how much I believe you have horrendously let this girl down Jess, what you have so carelessly allowed to happen and then compounded is absolutely not what reputable and responsible rescue is about

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