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Location: England,UK
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 153
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23-04-2011, 10:00 PM
Or if i'm doing obedience but that's totally different
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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23-04-2011, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Gizmoli626 
I only tell my dog to go down if a dog that is known to be aggressive comes by or if my dog is getting very nervous (which is only the odd dog). She has been socialised from the start so is no bother around other dogs. I'm definitely not going to encourage it by stroking or cuddling like i see many do.
Or if i'm doing obedience but that's totally different
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Location: England,UK
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 153
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23-04-2011, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
Are you saying you pin your dog in these situations - or you ask it to lie down?
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Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,012
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23-04-2011, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Gizmoli626
No no she knows the down command. I don't think i've ever had to pin her. My mam does it with her dobermann x (she's extremely dominant)
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Location: England,UK
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 153
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23-04-2011, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Tupacs2legs
wot your mum pins her dobi?
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Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,991
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23-04-2011, 11:20 PM
So, not only are dogs not wolves, but even if they were the whole protocol only serves, at best to put some routine in place, at worst shows the owner to be aggressive (forcing down and holding)
Barmy owner was too strong, my apologies. Misguided definitely.
The protocol itself - barmy!
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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24-04-2011, 06:24 AM
Originally Posted by pinkgunner
...
I have had Diesel on a longline in the house all day and it has made a huge difference, I have been able to remove him away from Ruby everytime he jumped on her head and eventually he gave up! I also tried it out on our walk and where as he usually chases Ruby who chases a ball. I took two balls, threw one for Ruby in one direction while I stood on the longline so Diesel coudln't chase her, then I distracted him with the other ball and threw it in the other direction for him and did this loads on our walk before, down the beach - it was fantastic (apart from getting rope burn when the line slipped really fast through my
fingers
)It has already made a huge difference and I'm sure Ruby is pleased shes not being continually harrassed.
Some snaps from our walk earlier, with ball and longline!
Sat waiting patiently for me to throw his ball, bless him!
.....
Thanks again for all your advice. Our walk was much easier today and it was our first time with the longline so hopefully it will only get easier!
xx
but of course, it's very good for in the home too! I'm really pleased for you that it's helping. Of course it goes without saying, never leave it on him when you are not there, for safety reasons.
Remember too to always reward for what you do want, and for when he's being relaxed/calm etc, then it will help him to understand even more what is required behaviour for him.
Sounds as if things have already improved greatly - very well done if you don't mind me saying (and, isn't he gorgeous!)
Wys
x
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Location: Fife, UK
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,695
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24-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Gizmoli626
I knew straight away someone would pick up on that bit and that bit only, not the fact that she rests, lies down during the walk or anything else. Again i stress she is not walking or exercising for 2 hours.
A dominant dog would stand over or make another dog submit to show it's dominance and position in the chain. How you go about doing this is entirely up to you. I tell my dog down and she lies down, if she's done something wrong she will roll onto her side. This is sufficient enough for me.
If not then why would you do this yourself
Also, a dominant dog just may not simply accept another dominant dog doing this!! So what happens when that dominant dog decides YOU wont do that......or a hundred other scenarios..?
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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25-04-2011, 08:03 AM
http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose...ancemyths.aspx
I like this article replying to a question from a trainer on what to do with clients who had watched CM etc....
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Canine-Be...nance-myth.htm
quote...
....... The remainder of so-called dominance is rank opportunism, meaning the dog has been artificially promoted; some have been mismanaged, manhandled, abused, etc., and are frantically attempting to control the situation. Having said that, there are unfortunately a great many people (some of whom should know better) who insist upon relating certain behaviors to true dominance. I struggled with this throughout my professional career, and there's very little one can do to eradicate this misconception.
You are far more patient than I when it comes to tolerating the lack of information, education and experience found in some trainers (who then go forth and create serious behavior problems in dogs which otherwise would not become aggressive or overly anxious.) Cesar Milan, Monks of New Skete, et al (at least we've gotten rid of Barbara Wodehouse's theories) will always be among those of us who know better. It's ironic that the breed with which the Monks acquired their expertise happens to have a large number of fear aggressive members (statistically.) As for abusive "training" methods (attributed to the other party whom you mentioned), if one does not have the intellect and ability to enhance cognition in the domestic dog, one does what one can. The result is always fear and misery and there will always be individuals who are incapable of perceiving the absolute stupidity and lack of humanity in that approach. However, the proof is in the "pudding"; seeing a dog habituated to a household with affection, fair leadership and the awareness that it is a living creature (not a stuffed animal) is the best defense to stupidity. Your skill as a trainer depends upon your ability to "read" your clients' dogs with very little time afforded you (given the average consultation is approximately two hours, give or take). You do NOT have to convince anyone of the soundness of your methodology. Most clients will fall into place behind your behavior modification program(s) after the first 30 minutes, given you can demonstrate your ability to perceive, analyze and manage their dog. I have had (not often, thankfully) clients who argued with me (mostly men) but the answer to this sort of challenge is to stick to your own security in your knowledge, experience and gift (and yes, it IS a gift to be able to get inside the head of a dog you've just met and have a plan of action with which to help the dog.) Again, the proof is in the pudding: your plan of rehabilitation will WORK (providing the owners follow it faithfully, which is up to your ability to motivate them). Most dogs, even those with serious problems, begin to demonstrate a more relaxed, bidable emotional state in as few as two weeks.
It's all about psychology; it's also about intelligence (the human's)...fully 99% of all problem behaviors I've seen in the domestic dog were the result of their human cohabitants. You have to see your method as successful 100% of the time, providing owners cooperate fully. Although it's quite rare, I can remember a few times where I left the household of a client (without accepting payment) because my philosophy conflicted so greatly with theirs that there was no purpose in attempting any reconciliation. There's sufficient literature out there (in ethology, psychology, behavior) to affirm and augment your professional opinion. Quote it, take it with you, refer people to it, and stick to your proverbial guns. Your reputation of knowledge, skill and success will increase as you go. Don't be intimidated. You know what you know!
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