No not at all. The GSD just has a characteristic temperament that wouldn't be typical for a Finnish Lapphund. The innate guardiness of a GSD is not present in all breeds.

It's also not present in all GSDs or any other 'Guarding' breeds.

Yes, I agree each breed does have its own typical temperament. This is sure evidence of the high heritabilty it has. There is always variation within breeds and this is down to genetic variation within the breed together with environment.

By just talking in general , you are taring all owners of problem dogs with the same brush.

unfortunately they can't see where they went wrong

Sometimes it is not as simple as that, if only it was.

Where did the person who`s dog was attacked by another dog, resulting in nervous aggression go wrong , or the person who got the rescue dog , with behavioural problemes go wrong, these people have probably (myself included) done everything right, firstly they dont give up on their dogs, they work and spend a fortune on rehabatilitation , behaviourists, hrs and hrs on socailizing their dogs , to overcome the problems they have.

Maybe the wrong they did was care to much , and not give up on their dogs.

Some times nature takes over nurture, it all goes back to breeding, if a dogs temperament is not 100% it should never be bred from,as we as owners are the ones who buy the ofsprings of these dogs. Sometimes no matter what we do or the way we bring our dogs up, things go wrong. we do all we can to alter that, but it is a constant battle... and when you get throw away comments like Bad owners make bad dogs, it will make anyone defencive , when they know they have done everything right to try and bring a well behaved /socialised dog up.

Maybe my wrong doing was buying an 8wk old pup, bring her up the same way I bring up all my dogs , to respect me, do as they are told, spend hrs on socialising her with other dogs /people/ situations, Taking her to training classes/ring craft/ showing her....but then she gets attacked, and WAM!!!! we have a problem, that has taken me 4 yrs to get to where we are today.(she can know meet other dogs, on lead, ) and not try to attack them)


malady wrote

At least have the decency to ASK what I mean instead of jump to conclusions, falsely assume and name call

I think I did ask you to explain, what you ment by BAD .

No you dont have to explain to me, what you ment if you dont want to, but you cant blame me for reading your post for what is was.... tarring all owners of bad dogs with the same brush.

That sort of comment usually does come from ignorance, it comes from people who only see things one way, and throw awa comments like " huh, I would`nt own a dog like that" or " it must be your fault your dog is like that,"

I am not saying you fall into that catagory at all, I am sure you dont, but hopefully it will let you see what it is like when we hear comments that genaralize all owners of problem dogs..

But I don't mean all, maybe I should have said the majority or just those many dogs messed up by their owners. I don't believe it has anything to do with breeding unless apparent whilst a pup, but there can be other environmental factors beyond the owners control.
I certainly wasn't blaming you for your dogs problems, I don't know you or your dog. Please don't take my comments to heart or aimed at you, Honest.

Most of you know the problems I have with spencer and his irrational fears ,I cant even walk him he hates it that much.
His sisters are the same one of who stopped with the breeder, in fact if possible shes worse she can walk her but if any one talks to her or looks at her shes off.
She was breed from last year as shes a stunning bitch with excellent pedigree and her pups were absolutly fine ones a show champion at 2.
However I wouldnt risk it and I'd never breed form Spence.

Below was your first comment to me ;

Excuse me, but NOWHERE in that statement, did you ASK me to explain myself, nor in any other reply to me thereafter.

I never said that dogs with nervous aggression because of an incident was the fault of the owners. Even nervous aggression can be solved with the correct training. And for once, I agree with AnneUK on this. Whether a problem is intentional or not, owners are sometimes unaware that their own inadvertent behaviour is having an effect on their dog and causing undesirable behaviour.

You can continue to make accusations about what I 'Meant' or you can accept the fact that you took what I said out of context. Either way, I make no apologies for my statement, Dogs aren't BORN BAD, people make them that way ! I'm sure breeders the world over will admit they have never in their lives seen or heard of a BAD Aggressive Puppy ! So it must come from somewhere.

Jackbox wrote

Maybe if you had explained your meaning of BAD a little more,

I think that was asking you to explain?

Ofcause dogs are`nt born "bad" or aggressive but they do have genetic traits, they will have a character in place waiting to be nurtured, hopefully in the right directions, and yes you are right, sometimes a person can make mistakes in bringing up their puppies, sometimes in a split second you can instill a trait you dont want into a dog, and not know it. sometimes you have owneres who dont know or care how their dogs turn out, you even get the morons who love the image of a hard dog, but sometimes it does just come from nowhere, it comes from an experience you dog has been through, and if its genetic character is not 100% , it can result in a dog with issues.

Dogs are not born bad, and people dont always make them that way.

You said that AFTER calling me ignorant, NOT before. As I said before, don't try to twist things to your favour and that comment you made is a statement not a question ASKING me !

If you are unclear in which order you posted your insult, I would suggest you check back. I'm sure you have the time since you plucked my original statement from page 7 !!!

You should have ASKED me to explain BEFORE name calling and accusing.

So what's the in-between then ??? If they're not born bad and people don't always make them that way, how do they get that way ???

I sit on the fence at the moment re: temprament is a result of breeding or temprament is a result of rearing and how the dog is kept, I think both play a part, life experiance plays a part,

if it were all in the breeding then pups would show a streak of it form birth,,,,,which would develope quickly, or would it?,,,

its a hard one to answer,,, my own experiance is,,, I have six rotts not a bad bone in one of them,,
there litter mates in diff homes,,, some are not so good, so I think I have either been blessed or reared them diffrently to the others,

Vinnie could go the wrong way in the wrong hands, I have to watch him carefuly,,,he is my own breeding out of two of the most placid dogs I own,,,

he has never done a thing wrong but he will not back off if a threat is made by an older dog,,,very careful handling will need to continue with this lad indefinatly,,

he never goes up to dogs with a bad attitude, but he will not run if they come to him with one,


Kaos on the other hand is from a {hard bitch} I had been advised not to buy him by some rotty folk as his mother is a right bad bit of work,,seemingly,, now she can be a bit sharp,,,


Kaos is the most loving adorable non aggressive rotty in the land, he never looks for trouble and if it comes he looks to me to help,
he has been with every sort of dog imaginable to play, he went out on his own with a couple of Frans wolfies, most rotts would have been over faced with a couple of dogs that size running round him,
he just sticks close to mum,
fran {i think } had thought it may kick off,,, but in a few min she had him all figured out and I think she was pleasantly surprised at the way he takes things in his stide,

she took pics and put them on the forum,

he has been duffed up by two pomms, never tried to retaliate, to busy trying to climb up anything to get away form them,,,

as said I think there are many factors involved in aggression, some so complex we may never truely understand them,,, Im still on the fence,