Maybe it's just me, but isn't this statement kind of liking them one way for purely cosmetic reasons?
You wan't them to have a tail cause you like the look of them with a tail, regardless of whether they were born with one or not-they were born with reproductive organs too yet one so freely takes these away.
And you still seem to hold this POV regardless of the fact undocked trad.docked breeds often suffer greatly, infact i have even known of a tail injury related fatality (!), from having a full tail..
To me the above seems so, which would make a lot of the anti docking argument quite hypocrytical Sorry if im misguided, but it does seem this way too me.

I think this thread has run its course, it started off where people disagreed or agreed with the docking ban, now after 40 pages we are getting just the same answers.
I personally think the ban is silly and I wont change my mind after what I have witnessed over the years, and I don't believe any one who thinks the ban is a good thing will change there minds either.
Also some of the disscusions seem to getting personal and we dont want or need that.
So I think we might as well agree to disagree.

Gaz

just to add one more thought,
what about other breeds given surgery due to breeding faults. I had a lady on the phone the other day who wishes to join my training club, she owns a shar Pei bitch pup that is 5 months, we started talking about the pup and as it was her second dog from the same breeder she was telling me that she had viewed the pup at a young age (dont quote me ) about 4 weeks, I had been a bit taken back to hear that the pups had stiches round there eyes to hold the (again dont quote me) muscles in place, if the pups were left they would drop and the dog would be unable to see, I had never heard of this before, if docking is banned surely these procedures will come into question sooner or later,

Shona, I think the difference is, this 'tacking' is necessary to enable the dog to live a normal and pain free life. If it wasn't done severe entropion would develop, leading to ulceration and eventual blindness.

thanks pod, I have no idea why or when its done, as I mentioned it was news to me! can you tell me (just so I know) whats involved, I know that over the years breeders have reduced wrinkles due to health problems, is this something that is likely to be bread out? and do all pups have to have it done? or just certain ones? what age and for how long the eyes are tacked,
sorry for so many questions but I honestly have no idea, also are other breeds affected ( If you dont ask you will never know)
shona

It [ the condition is called entropion ], can affect other breeds, yes, including some Bull breeds, Chows, and others.

Some info here following entropion surgery on a Bulldog, and a brief bit on tacking at the bottom of the page

http://bulldogsworld1.homestead.com/entropion.html

Some general Shar Pei health issue info including entropion

http://www.royalsharpei.com/health_problems.htm

HTH :smt001

i agree but worry that it might be termed as "cosmetic " under this stupid law.
And a last word from me on the subject... as a show person cant wait to se how many litter are registered that dont exsist, we'll never have so many "mature " pups in the ring

The only first hand experience I have of entropion was a very mild cases that didn't require surgery until adulthood. Vets are not keen to rush in and operate in these cases as they often corrrect naturally with maturity.

The second link from Patch looks good for info on the Shar Pei entropion, and as she says, other breeds are affected but it seems to be most serious in those with loose skin on the head.

The KC brought in the rule a few years ago that dogs which have had an operation that alters the natural conformation of the dog may not be shown without permission...... and they don't as a rule, allow entropion ops. I don't know if this includes 'tacking'... probably not but this new rule was a good move to discourage breeders from breeding from affecteds and so reduce the problem in the breed. Vets who have done such operations also have the option of reporting these to the KC.

Surely that can only last for so long though???

I think the main stumbling block on the whole of this thread isn't docking for cosmetic reasons, I THINK we are all agreed on that not happening anymore?
My interpretation is that we are mainly disagreeing for docking for working dogs??? Certainly that's how I've read the last 40 pages..ultimately of course, it must boil down to a pro/anti hunt debate then. If you disagree with hunting/shooting it is easy to say 'no docking' as you don't feel the dogs should be put in the position where their tails may (or may not) be damaged in the first place.
If you are pro shooting/hunting, then you see it as cruelty if the dogs are not docked as their tails could be injured. There will never be a middle ground on this then will there?

Everyone knows my opinions (!!!!! :smt002 ) I also feel the debate has run it's course now and is in danger of becoming personal. It's been a fantastic, informative and interesting debate which has, in the main been conducted with repsect for moth sides of the coin. Brilliant.
You never know...I may persuade Dawn just to let me come for the drinking bit one day...... :smt002

thanks for the link patch, I am very surprised that they do the eye tacking at 10 - 14 days old without any anisthetic, surely it causes some pain! intresting reading though, and I believe this will soon come under question. The article states that dogs with the condition should not be bread from but I wonder if all breeders stick to this, Although I believe that health has greatly improved in the breed so the vast majority must be working hard to improve the breed,