Once bitches fight they can hold that grudge for years. Moving Tip won't help and TBH I don't think that he has anything to do with it.

Dogs are much easier to cope with, they tend to be like all males and forget about it afterwards.

rune

Thank you all for your posts and hugs and well wishes, I nearly couldn't face logging on this morning, but I'm glad I did now, nothing has changed, but the hugs help.

There are too many posts for me to reply individually, but I'll try to cover the questions/points made though probably in a rambling kind of way.

Firstly both dogs always want to be with us (usually me if I am in a different room to OH) wherever we are in the house and usually as close as possible. One thing that has changed since Tip came is that i used to sit on the floor so that Stumpy and Hoki could lie either side of me. Since Tip came I don't do that anymore because Tip wants to join in and bounces all over the 3 of us. As a result Hoki will usually lie by my feet and Stumpy in her bed in the corner of the room.

Hoki is not particularly a confident dog, if out on a walk and another dog tries to take her ball, she will just let it and come running to me. She has only ever had one fight with another dog outside the house and that was when she was recoving from her first knee op and two black labs set on her (after she barked at them). But at home she has far more confidence and has bossed Stumpy around from day one by following her around and putting her head over Stumpy's back.

At first Stumpy used to submit, but even then Hoki wouldn't leave her until we had intervened. Then we went through a period of Stumpy standing up for herself and they had a few fights - for about 6 months these coincided with my own menstrual cycle...still not sure exactly why. But after about an hour of tension between them, they would relax and things would be ok. Since then until Tip joined us they did pretty well, never best of friends but they showed no tension between them and would even lie next to each other.

Since Tip came the tension has mounted again with Hoki following Stumpy around in an aggressive way until Stumpy goes to her bed. This is where it get tricky because if we leave them to it, once Stumpy is in her bed (or certain other places) Hoki will relax and things are fine. But I don't like Hoki doing this and so we usually stop her, but this is when it usually flairs up. It seems that if we intervene it gives Stumpy the courage to stand up to Hoki and this is mostly likely when a fight will start as Stumpy will turn and face hoki rather than slinking off to her bed. So if we do intervene, sometimes a fight will start, sometimes it won't. However, if we don't intervene, (1) Stumpy gets bullied and (2) ocassionally a fight will kick off anyway.

I do think it is all about jealousy (or the dog equivelent - call it guarding if you prefer) - Hoki doesn't really want to share her home (and me and OH) with Stumpy. But she had got past that before Tip joined us. It is possible that they would 'go back to normal' if Tip was rehomed, but I know that bitches have a reputation for not 'forgiving and forgetting' once they fall so I just don't know.

Sorry for such a long post, I probably still haven't answered half the questions/comments!

I took so long typing my last response that you and Moobli had posted in the meantime, but this is my fear. Whilst I do still think that having Tip has triggered this (and looking at it, I think it is to with subtle changes in my attention to the other two - like not sitting with them both on the floor anymore) I really don't know whether him going would now make any difference

Sorry, forgot to say, yes they are both spayed.

At first I wasn't too concerned as they went through this before, but the frequency of Hoki stalking Stumpy has dramatically increased and Stumpy is (quite rightly) just getting fed up of it.

I don't think they are fighting to kill - other than Hoki's ear (which could just have been bad luck) there isn't a mark on either of them, though of course they do both have thick coats. But I am so worried that the more it happens the more serious it will become.

No advice as I have only one Fudge but sending some hugs to hep get you through.

Oh Hali what a horrible situation to be in.
John Rogerson did a workshop recently in Perth about dog aggression. One of the things he suggested was to separate them completely for 5 or 6 weeks and then reintroduce them as you would strange dogs. I could find out more from a friend who was at the workshop if you think it might be any help.

I knew someone who did that with Patterdales and it was a total failure.

I do know that litter sisters have been split before they fought and introduced as if they were strangers and been fine.

Re Hoki and Stumpy----sometimes you have to let dogs be 'bullied' in order to maintain the status quo. I hate it when it happens to old dogs and I have been known to interfere (a lot!) but I wouldn't with bitches, especially as it does sound as if it was fair in dog terms. You might well be right about you giving the underdog the courage to go in----if everyone is against you you tend to back off but if you think you might have support its worth a go.

It might be worth getting someone in to look at the situation who has experience of living with a group of mixed sex dogs. Who can read the body language and help you know when and what to do.

rune

Thanks Dale's Mum, I would be interested in hearing about that. I would've thought a seperation would have made them worse but I'd be really interested to hear about that.

I just wanted to say I am reading and I care, what an awful situation to be in and heartbreaking too.

I'm afraid I have no advice but know I am thinking of you and sending hugs.

Oh this sucks, how awful for you. I cannot begin to imagine how you feel?

Poor Hoki, I do hope her ear heals well. It must be so distressing seeing them fight all the time What a shame that they couldn't just settle down and live with each other I know you'll be heartbroken if you have to split them up permanently.

Huge hugs to you xx