What a load of rubbish the last part is.

As far back as 1981 a vet in Essex had become increasingly concerned over the number of his patients who had severe reactions within hours of being vaccinated. He in collaboration with a Veterinary Department at a University, set up a titre testing study. The conclusions revealed that the vast majority of dogs had a noted antibody level to all the diseases that vaccines were available for.

He then started offering titre tests before vaccinations & vaccinated the dogs based on the titre test results & lo & behold the level of reactions post vaccination dropped to zero !

Nothing to do with Human Vaccinations at all & the research done by Glasgow University has resulted in the pre vaccination titre tests they now offer

If only my Dad had listened to me instead of his vet-his dog would have been alive for many more years

While it is a very sad story it in no way validates an anti vaccine position. And once again have you the data to hand to support the assertion that lepto is more prone invoking reactions (It isn't) or that there is a less than 12 month duration of PROTECTION as opposed to a serological response which may be easily measured but have poor correlation to true protection (you can't). Which are the important serotypes in the dog vacciness and which serotypes are not covered?


Personal anecdote - I have been vaccinated multiple times for Hep B - and failed to mount a serological response. Do I think it is a waste of time? Nope I am a statistical outlier on the response curve

Stop making statements you can't back up

No medical intervention is 100% safe but they are a damn sight less risky than the diseases.

Again not evidence - just assertion if you had posted the study by the vet maybe i would have ben impressed as well as documenting te reduction in post vaccinal reactions


and yes the interest in vaccine reactions comes directly from concerns in the human field - concern manufactured by the media and certain dishonest parties

Try reading my second post

I have auto immune disease(not AIDS)the cause is a multiple vaccination before I when abroad back in the 1960s to Biafra.

The PM done on my Dad's dog revealed that the Lepto vax had caused a massive immune reaction & did cause his death. He's not the only one BTW there are way too many others-including dogs who the Vaccine companies have paid for subsequent veterinary expenses for as they accept that the vaccine had caused adverse reactions.

I'm no closed minded fool, I have done research(not just on the internet as it didn't exist when I started)& spoken/corresponded to/with many Immunologists & Veterinary specialists, before coming to my own conclusions.

The vet who brought up the question of adverse reactions to vaccinations, had no interest in human vaccines, only in his patients & their welfare. He was a very experienced vet & highly regarded in the veterinary world. He was actually awarded honours in recognition of his work & care when he retired(he refused them beforehand)

I would suggest that it is you who are closed minded & blind to the truth that over vaccination can & does cause not just the odd adverse reaction, but pain, suffering & death in too many cases.

Off to add you to my ignore list

Or you can't give names details or evidence for what you say. There is no epidemic of vaccine reactions and you can't admit or stand it when your words are questioned.

Please post studies that back up your words! I won't ignore them or you nor will i refrain from telling people what the evidence actually says.

I am glad you have come to this decision, IMO you are doing the best by your dog. Let us know what results you get as I am especially now interested in first titre results affter puppy vacs.
Ebnedic sadly seems to have a very rigid view on vaccination and obviously just wants to see every dog boostered regardless.
At least us who believe titre testing is the way are not saying vaccination altogether is bad as its not its the right thing but only if your dog needs it or is not susceptable to allergy reactions. Vaccinating a dog with high levels of immunity already or allergy problems is equally as dangerous as exposing a dog with no immunity to one of the diseases. Each case should be assesed individually.

If you want to start a debate about the MMR vaccine and safety, why don't you start a new thread instead of doing it on someone else's dog-related health subject?

And if you do so, perhaps you'd like to address the many possible side effects listed in the MMR vaccine manufacurer's insert:
http://emc.medicines.org.uk/medicine...IL/M-M-R%20II/
http://www.jabs.org.uk/pages/mmrvaccine.asp

Including the manufacturer's statement that "M-M-R II has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or potential to impair fertility"

And the fact that there is no such thing as a completely safe vaccine ,or drug for that matter. It is utterly irresponsible to say such a thing. I'm certain my GP wouldn't sign anything promising 100% safety. If vaccines were 100% safe there would be no need for the vaccine damage payment system or the yellow card system.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...le/DG_10018714

Oh look, from the Merck website:
"No vaccine is 100% effective and 100% safe."
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec23/ch263/ch263l.html

(Mods - I am sorry I have posted off-topic. It us not my intention to start a debate on the MMR vaccine.)

EBMEDIC has very strong views on advice being based on actual evidence. Nothing else

vaccines are safe - Those of you that have been reading will note that I have never claimed that medical interventions are 100% safe. However vaccines have an exemplary safety record. The safety record for NOT vaccinating should not need elaborating on.
The Yellow card system is in place for ALL medications, it is not uniquely for vaccinations. Which brings me neatly to the safety data sheet for medications. Almost all medications have side effects etc as long as your arm. The important thing is the probability of those occurring in comparison to the benefits expected. This balance is overwhelmingly in the favour of vaccination. I have yet to have a poster put valid evidence to the contrary despite many hysterical posts telling me this is happening.
MMR is just such a case, I make no apologies for bringing it up as I suspect These issues cross the medical/ veterinary boundaries. In the same way parents were fed lies about the safety of vaccines and children died or had real disabilities as a result of infection with measles. The media and a few unscrupulous people have compromised the health of many people. It is my opinion that this is happening in veterinary medicine.

Its not perfect but the mechanisms (science, evidence based studies, statistics placebo controlled studies longditudinal observational studies etc .... ) are the best way forward. The longevity and quality of life for both our pets and ourselves is evidence for this.

And 'Lucky Star' has strong feelings about having a balanced view. There is no such thing as a safe vaccine and it is laughable to hear you attempt to deny what the vaccine manufacturers themselves state - that no vaccine is 100% safe. They all have side effects - some serious, hence (to reiterate) the necessity for the vaccine damage payment system. Vaccines have been withdrawn because of safety reasons, for instance, Pluserix MMR vaccine, which was withdrawn in 92, I believe.

Now please, start another thread if you want to debate this subject.

The reading comprehension is abysmal today.

Care to post exact figures for these reactions in dogs as you car to keep these threads tidy