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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,724
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Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
To answer your question farmers make money from their collies by selling puppies or part trained youngsters.
What that’s the only reason farmers have working collies, come on Dawn its hardly their only reason to have these dogs now is it, not as in greyhound racing Do they make money from breeding and selling puppies? The times I hear about people breeding not making money seems to contradict that – or are you saying that they are not breeding ethically?
Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
It was from that thread but Spot was referring to the locked thread. So totally unrelated. Spot wants to resurrect greyhound racing again, she doesnt like the fact that some people support it and they can see greyhounds as dogs that make money for people, my point being when somebody claims their PET is their BABY, they cannot be seeing it in the same light as a racing greyhound can they? Yet the thread was about somebody mating a puppy large breed intentionally without health testing, so what other reason could there of been than financial gain? I.E in relation to racers making money for their owners too.
Oh so what you say in one thread (whether locked or not) is not necessarily true in another thread? How bizarre
So you support one sort of person merely owning dogs for financial gain but not another?
Yes its true I don’t like animals being used purely for monetary gain whether it be greyhound racing, puppy farmer or byb’s breeding underage dogs, all the same thing really. Oh and I will keep voicing my opinion and resurrecting whatever I want to regardless of whether you like it or not just as you will voice yours you don’t have to respond to my posts (especially when you don’t know the answers to any questions I ask) you don’t even have to read them.
Originally Posted by
Phil
I also have experienece of dogs being classed as a tool.
I would never post in a forum what I've seen done to working dogs that are no longer of use .......but it's fair to say I understand why (if they are no longer of use) people do what they do.
Why not if as you say you understand why they do what they do? Surely its nothing for you to hide if you have no problem with it?
Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
I was trying to show that when somebody claims that their pet is their baby, they cannot be looking at it in the same light as a racing greyhound owner, who doesnt see their dog much let alone live with it, the similarity is that the dog in question was treated like "stock" in as much as it was bred for money intentionally (cant see it as for anything else) when far too young, it couldnt of had the relevant health tests at that age.
Oh right so breeding purely for money and treating dogs as stock is fine so long as they are of an age and have had the health checks and not called pets and you never see them?
Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
The majority do get good retirement homes, some dont. I agree the bitch will probably stay with the owner all its life, but if that were the same for Greyhounds would you agree with them racing?
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I agree some are treated very badly, but we must not tar everyone with the same brush, most are treated very well indeed and do find lovely retirement homes.
Finally someone who can answer the questions about all the greyhounds who are not accounted for. Can you point me in the direction of figures that prove the majority get good retirement homes, thanks.
But greyhounds don’t stay with the owners do they, you’ve just said the majority end up in rescue – not necessarily in nice homes dawn and they can stay there for years so breeding for an already saturated market is not a problem then?
Why is that more acceptable? You don’t have a problem with breeders never taking the dogs they have bred back or owners who give them up when they have served their purpose?
What would people say on here if they started a thread on here saying my breeder wont take the puppy back as there is a problem – would they tell them to dump it in rescue because that’s ok? Would it be acceptable to people on here Im breeding my bitch but have no intention of keeping any will not provide back up if necessary and wont be bothered if you flog it off to spain or stick it in rescue when you’ve finished using it?
Originally Posted by
Moobli
I don't know a great deal about racing greyhounds, having never been to a dog track and never owned one. However, I would be really interested to know whether those who out and out condemn greyhound racing, do so because of the racing itself OR because of how they feel the dogs are treated when their racing life ends?
The same way as I feel about animals performing in a circus. I am out and out against using animals purely for monetary gain and to provide entertainment as I said whether it be puppy farmers, bybs or greyhound breeders and owners.
During their racing careers dogs can be drugged, fed before racing (to slow them) forced to run regardless of whether the conditions are suitable or not (its in the rules that they have to race and owners can be fined if they withdraw the dogs), they are never allowed to play only to train, have a high possibility of being injured and when they are not treated quickly if at all. Need I go on? How about using live bait for training? Or being kept caged for most of the day? How about using one dog to sire thousands of offspring and offering no back up?
Also its not just about the racing career, its about those that don’t make it to the track, trust me they do not get the chance to curl up by their owners or breeders fire they get to make a trip to seaham (yes Dawn I know you don’t have a problem with that as well)
Not sure what you mean by ‘feel’ the dogs are treated – its not just a feeling! It’s a fact yes the majority do not stay with their owners or return to their breeders, the lucky ones are put into rescue , others are taken to the vets to be pts (some consider these to be lucky as well) others do not have that nice little fate awaiting them, they are abandoned after removing ears of course, shot, in the case of those flogged to spanish hunters hung, drown, need I go on? Now does that fate happen to working collies, police dogs, sniffer dogs or ratters?
Originally Posted by
Moobli
Hmm he doesn't really make money from them. They are his work colleagues and pals. They assist him to do his daily job, and his job would be made very difficult (if not impossible) to do if he didn't have some fully trained sheepdogs.
He very occasionally breeds a litter (to keep one or two himself) and the other pups are sold to working homes for a minimal amount, he has also occasionally sold an older, trained or part-trained dog. You can command a higher price for such a dog, but when you take into account the costs of raising and training that dog then he is basically covering his costs.
I just don't see racing greyhounds as *working* dogs in the same sense as sheepdogs, gundogs, police dogs etc.
Thank you, this is how I thought it was, so they are not just to make money from if at all or just considered as stock.